Sign the Petition and EXPOSE PUMA
June 28, 2008
Click Here and sign the petition- together- we can expose PUMA for the frauds that they are.
After we have collected the all signatures needed, we will hand them over to PUMA and let it be known that PUMA will not stop this Democratic election year! We are making the goal 10,000 for the moment. We will reach it- and beyond!
June 29, 2008 at 12:36 am
we share more in common as democrats than our differences between Obama and Clinton!
June 29, 2008 at 1:01 am
HAHAHa David Archuletta, I’m sorry you lost AI.
June 29, 2008 at 3:56 pm
“EXPOSE THE PUMA?”
LOL! That’s funny!
June 29, 2008 at 5:53 pm
How on earth is a petition going to accomplish anything? How will a petition “expose” anything except that you are damn scared your candidate is not going to win?
Is this what you think will happen:
“Oh yes…you had a few people sign an online petition. I HAVE NOW SEEN THE LIGHT!!! I am now a born-again Obamamaniac!!”
Umm…sorry…NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
June 29, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Hey fellow PUMA members, a petition? How clever!!! Is that supposed to make us “believe” whatever it is you all see in Obama? What is the petition going to expose? How is it going to stop us? This is America you know and we have freedom of speech and can choose any candidate we feel is most capable of running our country.
If you think a petition will stop PUMA perhaps we should take you for a spin and prepare a petition against HOUND????
Thank you for giving me a good laugh today
)
June 29, 2008 at 7:31 pm
you’re welcome. Thanks for visiting!
The petition isn’t here to accomplish anything AGAINST PUMA, it’s goal is to make PUMA aware that we Democrats understand that the founders of PUMA are Republican GOP attack dogs.
Unlike most PUMA site- I will allow you to remain and continue posting, I wont even delete your comments. I believe in the first amendment.
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU, the duped and angry Democrats who are following along to a Republican tune- the tune that smeared the Clintons… you have been so easily tricked by their GOP tactics. You, my friend, are truly the drunk one.
But, hey, ask Darragh, if she loves her PUMA surrogates so much- now that you all too are Republicans, if she will give you all $500.00 from her homemaker salary.
June 29, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Wow! Congratulations Obama supporters for creating a completely new issue, called VOTER SUPPRESSION. You see, we have the right to choose who we want to vote for no matter how many petitions you put up. Remember that little thing called “FREEDOM OF SPEECH”? Or how about “DEMOCRACY”, you know, the right to vote for who you want.
I’ll definitely help you get the word out about your petition to suppress our votes, but Im sorry, you’ve just completely persuaded me to vote for McCain after seeing this!! If I was ever on the fence, your petition to take away my Constitutional rights as an American, just pushed me right over the fence into the McCain Camp!
This is how Obama gets votes? Through intimidation and voter suppression? This is not democracy, that is totalitarianism, and the first hints at socialism!
WE WILL VOTE FOR MCCAIN, SO JUST GET OVER IT!
June 29, 2008 at 7:48 pm
This petition isn’t abot voter suppression so I haven’t a clue of what you speak.
You are still allowed to vote for whoever, nowhere on this site did I relay otherwise.
So, like most PUMA voters- you are WRONG.
If this online petition tells you to vote for John McCain or Barack Obama, then prove it. Otherwise, quit lying. This petition isn’t here about VOTES. it is here for the sole purpose to letting PUMA understand that we know the founding of PUMA was GOP induced and aided.
I heard the liar Larry Johnson was about to update noQuarter, better run along and play with the rest of the gang before they start commenting wihout you.
Thanks for coming.
June 29, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Thanks for the great screenshots for my newest video on Voter Suppression & Intimidation Tactics by Obama Supporters
Have a great day Christina!
June 29, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Again- how does this have ANYTHING to do with voter suppression? Who am I telling not to vote? you’re a LIAR!
June 29, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Christina you sound like you don’t even know what this petition is about!!!!
I’m voting for McCain and never voted Republican in my life before. As you Obamacrats say, “Get over it.”
June 29, 2008 at 10:05 pm
I applaud the owner of this blog for allowing everyone to voice his or her opinion. It takes a great deal of character to respect the principles of free speech — I’ve noticed that most PUMA associated sites don’t allow dissenting voices to be heard. I wonder why? Sounds an awful lot like a certain administration currently in power.
June 29, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Thank you Jack.
June 30, 2008 at 1:27 am
I’m not getting what this “petition” is going to accomplish. A petition to get rid of PUMA???
PUMA wouldn’t be around if not for the huge mis-steps of the democratic party. So now, the DNC needs to get over it and deal with a PUMA in its side.
I’ve never voted for a Republican in the 20 years I’ve been a registered democrat, but the way the dems handled everything this year is pushing me completely away.
June 30, 2008 at 1:32 am
Great a HUGE CAT & DOG FIGHT LOL…….
Obama supporters will OFFER SO MUCH DAMAGE Barack Obama’s own people will be the ONES who bring him down !!
PUMA!!
I WANNA SIT AND WATCH THIS ONE EVOLVE..
June 30, 2008 at 1:38 am
No- this petition is not here to RID anyone of PUMA. they are free to express their hogwash, defamation, and lies.
We are free to sign this petition saying that WE NOW KNOW the founders of PUMA are REPUBLICANS, We KNOW that PUMA is being used a cloak to recruit normal Democrats onto their side- they up until now have been succeeding. But from this point on we are NOT letting these spokespersons go on television and propagate the idea that they are Democrats when they are NOT, YOU might be- your fellow PUMA might be, but your leaders, ARE NOT. and PUMA will NOT take down this election.
June 30, 2008 at 1:45 am
And your going to stop these spokepersons from the media??
I am sure that is up to the channel if they want them or not :
I do not see how that is down to HOUND… but thats right do what you will, making too much noise could turn on you in the long run….
Thats fine Obama followers will do as they will…
June 30, 2008 at 1:50 am
i am not a spokesperson of HOUND. I am simply a member.
PUMA didn’t start on television, it started on the web. Just like this very, very, very popular website. And I just launched yesterday!
You’re correct- it is up to the channel. And if they are listening to PUMA, I bet they surely would like to hear more about them. Like how their founder invested so highly in John McCain in 2000.
Yes, this website- which has absolutely NO affiliation to the Obama campaign, nor do we have any affiliation to the DNC, will fight for Democrats. We will do as we will…
And Republican supporters will do as they will…
June 30, 2008 at 2:01 am
You are correct “We the People” will vote in Nov as we wish regardless of Hound : Anti-Puma etc etc….
And you’re not having an affiliation with the DNC does not mean that you will make people vote any other way than the way they decide in Nov!
However you will push many over the fence!
I expect your energy can be used elsewhere!! Instead you’re playing into the others hands by stating they are going to bring the party down….. You’re just as culpable!
June 30, 2008 at 2:08 am
I find it fascinating that you feel no shame in falling for the same tactics that put Bill Clinton out of office, and that prevented John Kerry from stepping into office Just4Hill.
Nope, I do NOT play into the “others” hand. I play into TRUTHS hands. I state that PUMA will NOT bring the party down, they will FAIL because Democrats are NOT going to allow our candidate to be swift boated once more!
June 30, 2008 at 2:11 am
Your know what it is really simple many cannot vote for
B Obama regardless if Hillary is showing support to the party.
It is not anyones business apart from the individual when they go to vote & they have a right to vote for who they want.
It’s not Hillarys fault if many feel disenfranchised its not your fault or mine!
It’s the party who brought it about and no petitions etc etc will change that… this just shows another site that is trying to take away free will of many voters.
IT IS THEIR CHOICE WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR VOTE ONCE THEY HAVE DECIDED WHO THEY WANT TO VOTE FOR!
SIMPLE..
June 30, 2008 at 2:29 am
I am a proud member of PUMA, was a proud Democrat for 17 years until 2008 and am now going to vote for the candidate that I believe is most capable of the duties of Commander in Chief. I do not care who started PUMA either way, Republican or Democrat! It still stands for the destruction of the Democratic Party. PUMA means two things: Party Unity My Ass, and People United Means Action. Either way we will vote the way we want to vote. Not every PUMA member is voting McCain, some will sit out the election, some will vote Independent, some will write in Hillary Clinton. The fact that Obama was “chosen” by the DNC rather than elected by the people was the end of democracy as we knew it. Obama is not someone I believe has the knowledge or character to represent America as our President. He does not stand firm on his issues, and he does not even remember his own words, so how can he run this country? He has flip-flopped so many times that my head is spinning. He may win because he has the money and pay people to blog, campaign, call, support, vote, etc. etc. etc. for him. Who knows how much he paid the DNC to hijack delegates from Hillary?
So, I know comments will follow this one. Call me a racist, call me bitter, call me uneducated, call me whatever you want, but none of it is true. I based this decision not on Obama’s race, not on the fact that Hillary is not the nominee, and not because I am uneducated. I did my research on each candidate. I listened to speeches, read issues and policies and have made my decision as you have made yours. I am upset that I am crossing party lines in November, but I am voting for the person I believe is prepared to sit down in the Oval Office on day one and is prepared for the extremely difficult tasks at hand.
June 30, 2008 at 2:43 am
and u want unity?? When this is posted on your petition??
1:03 pm PDT, Jun 29, NotYour Sweetie, New York
Right on! Who do those PUMAS think they are not giving us the votes we are entitled to? They cling to antiquated notions like popular vote and need for competence in a candidates! It’s obvious they know nothing about the Democratic party! Burn them at the stake, I say!
Puma reminds me of a Manson like cult… Full of misguided souls in need of attention… Led by a Republican that has them conned into believing she is a Democrat. What a joke. No wonder why so many people are laughing at them.
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU,
No u just wanto to burn us at the stake????
Obama no way!
This is wonderful fodder for all to read through!
June 30, 2008 at 2:48 am
I have no control over who signs the petition- but I ask you to look at ALL of the signatures. See all the PUMA signatures? Yeah… why point out THAT one? Very fair Just4Hill.
June 30, 2008 at 2:51 am
I was just pointing out your point!! I think I am being fair??
You wrote that? if I had wrote anything u could of pulled me on it…
I WAS VERY FAIR
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU,
June 30, 2008 at 2:53 am
Please stop calling the kettle black when your stating the facts yourself! You will not rile me up I was VERY FAIR!
June 30, 2008 at 3:00 am
I am not riling you up- you are riling yourself up.
You are certainly NOT being fair when you look at every signature and pick the one’s against PUMA yet give the PRO-PUMA signatures (on an anti-PUMA petition by the way) a free pass.
You can’t call Obama supporters such things when PUMA voters are behaving in the EXACT same manner- You are projecting.
I didn’t go to a Pro-PUMA site and sign a petition that wasn’t regarded towards myself.
June 30, 2008 at 3:03 am
And also remember it was the DNC, Donna Brazille & Company etc who said they did not need our votes or do we just forget that too?
After all you have brought out so many new voters the Democratic party told us they do not need us..
Why does it matter to them now who we vote for?
I am confused too when was Bill Clinton throw out of office he did 8 years in the Whitehouse when we were better off then at anytime I recall.
June 30, 2008 at 3:06 am
but this is The ANTI-PUMA site and it shows the hatred etc that is brought about on this site.
Puma comments are mild in comparison!!
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU,
June 30, 2008 at 3:10 am
No I am as laid back as they come and at the end of the day each individual who can vote will do just as they please in Nov it is really as “simple” as that!
This Anti Puma site will not be what folk are thinking when they have the card in their hand they will vote with a clear mind and select who they want!
June 30, 2008 at 3:17 am
If we follow your theory- neither will PUMA.
It is hard to take your “calmness” seriously, exclamation points generally transfer on the internet as raised voices.
Are your exclamation points a mistake?
June 30, 2008 at 3:20 am
“Puma comments are mild in comparison!!”
I can see you haven’t been to many PUMA associated sites and message boards. The mildest ones spread lies and rumors about the Obamas and their supporters. Others joke about rape and I have seen a post on one site where an individual claims to “pray that Obama goes the way of Bobby K.” Now what do you suppose that means?
June 30, 2008 at 3:24 am
No your concept of internet transferring on the internet is incorrect!
Now you’re trying to educate me?
RAISED VOICES ARE “CAPS”
! Is merely making a point stand out….
You’re not really helping yourself in trying to be condescending….
If the cap fits wear it !!
June 30, 2008 at 3:32 am
I have no idea what they mean as yet sites I have been at have not covered anything your bringing out of your hat!
Your a angry Obama supporter can you not see the wood for the trees??? Leave it alone your not gonna change everything said out there buy hey if you want to change the world in 48 hours who am I to offer advise?
It was said to me so often as a child there is not point me trying to advise you as you will only do waht you want in the end.
You know what if you think your so powerful to stop everything that has been said this election seaon fine who am I to say anything different…..
I will leave you with one last thing this site is only going to make more waves to whomever you support….
The party is going to take years to heal and this site will not make that much difference to a PUMA!
Sleep well, I trust this site will bring you everything your looking for, because I can tell you this, it will not change the minds of many!
June 30, 2008 at 3:38 am
Here I did spell check for you before you pull me on it !!!
I have no idea what they mean as yet sites I have been at have not covered anything you’re bringing out of your hat!
You’re an angry Obama supporter can you not see the wood for the trees??? Leave it alone you’re not gonna change everything said out there but, hey if you want to change the world in 48 hours who am I to offer advice?
It was said to me so often as a child there is not point me trying to advise you as you will only do what you want in the end.
You know what if you think you’re so powerful to stop everything that has been said this election season fine who am I to say anything different…..
I will leave you with one last thing this site is only going to make more waves to whomever you support….
The party is going to take years to heal and this site will not make that much difference to a PUMA!
Sleep well; I trust this site will bring you everything you’re looking for, because I can tell you this, it will not change the minds of many!
June 30, 2008 at 3:44 am
Just4Hill, I was not trying to educate you. Where do you gather that? I was simply pointing out that you, in fact, were riled up.
Exclamation points are a punctuation mark that means to exclaim, or to yell. That is all I was saying.
You’re correct- caps do transfer as yelling as well. But so do exclamation points.
I am not an angry Obama supporter ( I am not the one using exclamation points) and I don’t think I have ever come across as such. I am a Democratic supporter. And the Democrat nominee so happens to be Senator Barack Obama. It also happens that I really, really, like Senator Obama. And I really really dislike swift boat organizations.
I am sorry you feel my site wont contribute anything to society, but I feel like PUMA doesn’t contribute anything to Democracy OR society. But I also think that is the point.
So, agree to disagree.
June 30, 2008 at 3:50 am
Well this transfers as angry to me
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU,
1:03 pm PDT, Jun 29, NotYour Sweetie, New York
Right on! Who do those PUMAS think they are not giving us the votes we are entitled to? They cling to antiquated notions like popular vote and need for competence in a candidates! It’s obvious they know nothing about the Democratic party! Burn them at the stake, I say!
Puma reminds me of a Manson like cult… Full of misguided souls in need of attention… Led by a Republican that has them conned into believing she is a Democrat. What a joke. No wonder why so many people are laughing at them.
And if your the owner of this site you are helping to spread the anger.
Have a great night
I am just one of the 18 million that cannot support B Obama.
June 30, 2008 at 3:55 am
Just4Hill- 18 million people didn’t vote for Senator Clinton, though she did remarkably well. and the pseduo-18 million of you that won’t vote for Senator Barack Obama don’t truly exist. Senator Obama is winning over a very very big margin of Clinton supporters. I am sorry to be the barer of bad news to you.
I am also sorry that you took my comment as offensive.
June 30, 2008 at 4:01 am
I am not leaving this comment to argue, just to make a point of how nasty the comments can be on an Obama site. I know that comments get out of hand on either an Obama, Hillary, McCain, PUMA, Just Say No Deal, etc.
I agree that the comment:
“pray that Obama goes the way of Bobby K.”
was wrong and in poor taste.
I have also read comments such as on Obama sites:
“I know how we can get rid of Hillary. We can murder her, throw her in the trunk and dump her body in the Bay.”
Any comment wishing, implying, or even mentioning death or murder is completely wrong and unjustified no matter where it’s posted, and who the target is. I am disgusted by anyone no matter who they are voting for who would stoop to that level.
June 30, 2008 at 4:03 am
Yes I made some grammatical errors in my post.
June 30, 2008 at 4:09 am
No judgment passed 1 of 18, we all can’t type correctly ALL the time
The Obama comment that you quote is surely heinous and disgusting. I take offense that ANYONE would say something. As someone who sincerely admired Hillary Clinton- I sincerely DO find it horrifying.
But there are both sides at play. NoQuarter has a comment recently saying,” I think I will make a shirt with a tree on it saying, “give Obama enough time and he will hang himself.”
I find THAT extremely offensive as well.
June 30, 2008 at 4:25 am
Admired past tense I will ALWAYS admire Hillary Clinton.
She is a beacon within our dim future!
she will be there AND WILL continue to light our way!
Always with Hill….
However I cannot support B Obama : NOAWY
I support the person and not follow a party.
June 30, 2008 at 4:32 am
Ah, you’re correct Just4Hill, I accidentally did use past tense.
you don’t HAVE to support Senator Obama, It’s just someone who devotes so much affection towards the struggles of Senator Hillary Clinton must also understand that the 3 decades of Democratic ideals that Hillary has fought for are not meaningless.. but they are meaningless to the Republican party.
June 30, 2008 at 4:43 am
I will vote as I choose in Nov… that is one thing the DNC cannot take away from me.
June 30, 2008 at 5:18 am
BO supporters, why do not you spend your time trying to explain people why you believe he is qualified. You know, talk about his achievements & experience, IF ANY.
That is the best way to try to change people minds. As simple as that. Well, not that complicated for Hillary or McCain supporters, because as Hillary said time ago… She has a lifetime of experience that she will bring to the White House. Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002.
June 30, 2008 at 6:49 am
Very funny site
Thanks for the laugh!
- A PUMA Democrat
June 30, 2008 at 6:54 am
PUMA and other websites like it are more often than not started by Republicans posing as Democrats. This is just another example of seriously cynical and disgusting tactics. Perhaps the most cynical aspect of it is the fact that many of these sites are asking for people to donate money, suggesting that their money will be going to helping Clinton’s campaign debt, when in reality the money is either going to McCain or just going into some scam-artists pocket. Real folks who have been duped by them are typically ignorant people. It is sad to think that anyone has been caught up in what they are trying to do. Heart-achingly sad.
June 30, 2008 at 6:57 am
PUMA was started by a Republican who has been supporting McCain since 2000
June 30, 2008 at 6:59 am
So, are you saying that anyone that doesn’t vote for Obama is a Repub? Interesting.
I have been a life long Dem, and will not vote for McCain OR Obama, unless Clinton is on the ticket with Obama. Then I MIGHT think about it.
I’m likely going Green, or Independant this time (McKinney is looking pretty good. She’s right on the issues, she’s a woman, and she’s black! A trifecta!).
The DNC, Democratic leaders and Obama have really turned me OFF this time. I mean, taking delegates from one candidate and giving them to another is the height of cheating and arrogance against the voters. Then there is the misogyny, and other things that just weirded me out.
I will NOT forget that. Finding out that those that are supposedly on the same side as I am are so CREEPY is very unsettling.
June 30, 2008 at 7:21 am
Christina, where are your petitions to stop the sexism in the media, or your petition demanding an apology from obama for his racist remarks. i guess you dont have any.
June 30, 2008 at 7:25 am
Sad to see Gov. Rendell go down this path, as I had tremendous respect for him. Perhaps this is some clever ploy on his part to stoke the fires of le resistance and insure we succeed to keep the Messiah from gaining power? I hope so, ’cause the other explanation is too scary to think about!
June 30, 2008 at 7:27 am
Ok Splashy,
So perhaps you’ve come to your conclusion based on some thought. I still think that you are severely misguided. Did you know that early on Clinton talked down the significance of Michigan and Florida? She suggested that they wouldn’t matter, and then she did a complete turn-around when it was in her favor and started talking about how liberty would be crushed if they weren’t counted properly. It’s such an ironic crime against reason and intelligence to spin the delegate issue the way you have. Sorry, but you’re totally full of shit on that one buddy. If you’ve been a lifelong Democrat, you know as well as I do that we need a Democrat in office and Obama is the one who is going to make that happen.
No, I don’t believe you. You’re not a real Democrat. You’re a Republican posing as a Democrat who is wishy-washy and self-flattering. You’re a Republican posing as a Democrat who thinks he’s really smart, smart enough to say “No, I’m too smart to vote for Obama”, even though you have no reason not to. I’m sorry… you’re not a Democrat.
June 30, 2008 at 7:30 am
http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/05/22/clintons-big-floridamichigan-flip-flop/
June 30, 2008 at 7:35 am
Clinton Campaign Statement on the Four State Pledge:
We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC’s rules and its calender provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar. Hillary Clinton Campaign, Sept. 1, 2007
June 30, 2008 at 7:38 am
“With regard to Michigan and Florida, our position is clear. We’re going to ask our delegates to vote to seat the delegations from Florida and Michigan. We do not think that that many Americans should have their votes and their voices and their preferences denied. We had an enormous turn-out, in particular in Florida, the largest turnout in the history of the Democratic primary in Florida. And we believe that it is critically important that those delegates have an opportunity to express their preferences at the convention. I don’t believe that anyone seriously thinks that we are going to have a national convention in which the delegations of Florida and Michigan are not going to have a say. So that is our position.” Clinton Campaign Feb. 2008
June 30, 2008 at 7:41 am
When Clinton realized that Obama’s campaign was threatening hers, she reversed her statement on respecting the DNC approved nominating calendar and starting spouting off about liberty, comparing the “denial of votes” to the denial of votes for African Americans in our country’s history. Such sick and twisted irony. The idea that so many people (supposedly) rally around this notion that justice and liberty were so crushed by the DNC is appalling to me. Splashy, respond. I’d like to hear what you have to say about this. Let’s get to it here.
June 30, 2008 at 7:47 am
Senator Clinton said in October, 2007,
“You know it’s clear this election they’re having in Michigan is not going to count for anything”
June 30, 2008 at 8:04 am
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
June 30, 2008 at 8:31 am
well, I’m sorry to have been hogging this comment section so much, but I felt that some very concrete examples should be presented to completely obliterate the arguments of the PUMA side. It appears that all PUMA supporters have become scared off by the presentation of a few tidbits of truth. There was a continual flood of comments and now it’s only me. Well, bring it on I say. How are you PUMA people going to respond to my points eh? Ahhhhh… I see, YOU CAN’T WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE IDIOTS, ORRRRR WITHOUT ADMITTING THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY REPUBLICANS.
there you have it folks. All they needed to hear was some simple truth and now they have given up on trying to tear down this page because they know that if they attract attention to it they will see that Hillary make a cynical flip-flop on Michigan and Florida and they will see that McCain made a disgustingly sexist joke at Hillary’s expense.
TAKE THAT PUMA!!! YOU’RE FULL OF IT!!! AND NOW YOU ARE EXPOSED!!!
WE, THE BEARERS OF TRUTH, WILL TAKE YOU DOWN! THANK YOU CHRISTINA FOR OFFERING THIS CHANCE TO TAKE DOWN PUMA!!!
June 30, 2008 at 8:31 am
one more time for the people
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
June 30, 2008 at 8:40 am
Sorry, I’m just going to keep going for a bit here. I want to personally invite Hillary4McCain to respond to the joke McCain made about Hillary exactly 10 years ago when he had no politically expedient way to speak well of her. Let me know what you think of that Hillary4McCain. Please, speak up.
I would also like to ask Hillary or Bust, 1of18Million4Hill, Clintonian Patriot, Loyal to Hillary 4Ever, Just4Hill, DZ4HILL, Splashy and LAMusing to please respond to the truth that I have presented regarding Hillary’s flip-flop on the issue of Florida and Michigan. May I remind you of the quote?
ok… I will.
Senator Clinton said in October, 2007,
“You know it’s clear this election they’re having in Michigan is not going to count for anything”
There you have it one more time so it’s clear. Do any of you want to respond now?
I actually think that each and every one of these silly posters are actually one Republican.
June 30, 2008 at 8:45 am
Here are some video for your viewiing pleasure Steve! Enjoy!
I am going to try to embed the first one and if it doesn’t work I will just paste the links:
June 30, 2008 at 8:46 am
This is so fucking funny! Expose PUMA? LOL
What a bunch of whiny asses you obamabots are and you know NOTHING about Democracy. You know NOTHING about the constitution. You know NOTHING about the bill of rights.
You bullies try to stop freedom of speech, you try to shut down our blogs, we get banned from obamabot blogs.
You assholes wouldn’t know democracy if it ran into your ass and climbed all the way up to your nose.
THIS SITE IS HYSTERICAL!
If you loved your country, really loved it, you’d want a qualified president, someone with a track record, someone who isn’t a liar, someone who loves this country, someone who doesn’t flip flop faster than the wind blows, someone who isn’t associated with a church that promotes hate for 20 years, someone who isn’t associated with terrorists and corrupt people.
That’s (if) you loved your country.
But you are an obamabot and you love your new messiah more than your country or your flag-
That is sad.
The DNC has lost it’s true Democrats – you newbie losers have no clue about elections, the importance of experience, the importance of the position of president, the loyalty it takes to fight for freedom of speech and EVERY VOTE COUNTS.
You are all ignorant and have no clue what you are doing.
Sad, sad, sad.
June 30, 2008 at 8:48 am
alrighty then… since no one is responding, I will analyze John McCain’s quote myself.
let’s see it for a third time just so everyone is up to date:
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
Okay… hmmm… how could a Republican spin this in order to shrewdly present it as McCain praising Hillary so that they can gain the support of sore losers on Hillary’s side… hmmmm
I don’t think it’s possible in any way. Perhaps the Republican’s are just going to have to ignore it because to respond to it would just draw attention to it.
well, in my own analysis, this is far more sexist and misogynistic than anything that came against Hillary during her campaign. Not only is this against Hillary… this against CHELSEA…. REMEMBER NOW>>> LET’S HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT!!!????
LET’S HEAR IT!!!!!
GIVE ME ONE MORE RESPONSE!!!!
YOU CAN;T
YOU CAN’T
YOU CAN’T
GO AWAY BECAUSE YOU REPRESENT ALL THAT IS EVIL AND IGNORANT IN THIS WORLD!!!
June 30, 2008 at 8:50 am
Excuse me 1of18million4Hill
Don’t change the subject. Respond to Hillary’s flip flop
let me repeat the quote.
Senator Clinton said in October, 2007,
“You know it’s clear this election they’re having in Michigan is not going to count for anything”
June 30, 2008 at 8:52 am
SAD to see a female runs this site. You must be young and stupid. You’ve never experienced sexism apparently. You’re just too young and spoiled to have a clue what women have fought for and endured so many years.
Wait, just wait until you are fired from a job for complaining that someone groped you… and it WILL happen unless you are ugly as dirt and weigh 300 lbs.
Wait until you work your ass off at a job and find out not only are you paid less than a male counterpart with the same responsibilities, but you will be passed over so he gets the promotion and raise. Just wait… because it will happen.
Hopefully you’ll never experience being attacked by a male only to be accused of being too slutty and had it coming. NO that never happened to me, but it’s happened to many a woman.
You are obviously very young and very ignorant. You have NO CLUE what women have endured through the years for YOU.
You’re too stupid, and too ignorant to have a clue. Maybe one day, when it’s wayyyy too late, you’ll get it.
Now go back to shitting on the American flag, which is what you are doing by supporting Obama and the behavior of the media and DNC this political season.. there’s no difference really.
You’ve all performed diarrhea on our flag with your actions.
June 30, 2008 at 8:56 am
that’s right. no response.
obviously you’re right there at your computer
are you trying to think of a response or are you trying to figure out another way to change the subject.
one more time.
Senator Clinton said in October, 2007,
“You know it’s clear this election they’re having in Michigan is not going to count for anything”
June 30, 2008 at 8:57 am
you’re a republican
June 30, 2008 at 8:59 am
tick tock tick tock tick tock
June 30, 2008 at 9:06 am
tick tock tick tock… the pendulous trunk of the Republican elephant swings back and forth…. the elephant in the room… hmmm, who would that be? That would be McCain. That would be McCain’s joke about Chelsea Clinton being ugly when she was 18 years old… that would be the elephant in the room. I am currently riding this elephant’s back. I am riding it with full confidence. And GUESS WHAT? I am riding this elephant all over the back of PUMA. PUMA still doesn’t want to mention this elephant even when it is crushing them, because mentioning it would mean that they would shrivel up and die and wouldn’t even be around for me to crush….
take that… I’m getting all poetic on you now.
you are so finished. how are you going to respond to my beautiful conceptual poetry
June 30, 2008 at 9:13 am
1of18million4Hill
Could you please give me a detailed description of your 17 years being a “proud Democrat”?
I’m very curious to know more about your personal journey towards wanting to vote for McCain.
You see, I am a compassionate person, I really like to understand the human side of people more so that I can figure out where they are coming from.
Could you tell about the early times when you were just starting to understand politics and decided to go Democrat?
I could tell you about those times for me, because they actually happened… and since I’m young, only 25, they happened not that long ago. All my memories of my personal journey towards being a Democrat are fresh in my mind. I could tell you my whole story. I could tell you that early on, I liked Hillary, but then realized that she was an awful candidate. The only thing I like about her now is that she is willing to cave in and admit that Obama is the man who is necessary to defeat McCain, a man who called her daughter ugly to a bunch of Republicans at a fundraiser.
oh… and before it gets burried. here’s that quote again for you to respond to:
Senator Clinton said in October, 2007,
“You know it’s clear this election they’re having in Michigan is not going to count for anything”
June 30, 2008 at 9:22 am
alright folks. I’m cashing in, going to sleep. It’s 5:30am here. I’m glad my insomnia kicked in so that I could find this and so quickly quell the sewage of comments pouring from the PUMA side that were trying to derail the very noble purpose of this website.
you lost. stop trying. you’re either idiots or Republicans. End of story.
OBAMA 08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 30, 2008 at 9:36 am
I’m not a Repub, I’m no longer a Dem, I was one for 16yrs, I’m switching to Indy.
I am not a feminist, I am not a hillbilly uneducated hick, nor one of the supposed racist whites who won’t vote for a black man, FYI I’m black myself. I’m not an old bitter woman or a young one for that matter, I’m in my 30’s ^_^
It’s 4:30am here and even though I don’t have to get up early, I am tired so will have to come back later in the day to speak on the topics you’ve mentioned but, I will say here is my position. I wanted who I felt was the best person for the job, that for me was Hillary. Thanks to the way the primary was conducted, totally bias toward one candidate over the other, I no longer have the option to vote for her. I WOULD have been willing even with the unfair treatment to get behind the other candidate if I felt it was for the benefit of the country. But I’ve researched him too well to be fooled by the media and DNC hype. If I voted for him now, I would be no better than the blinded culties who insist on supporting him no matter what.
So what choice do I have? don’t vote, write in Hillary’s name, vote for a 3rd party candidate, none of which will succeed in gaining the White House, or vote for the 1 person who CAN keep out, who I personally feel poses a greater threat to this Nation than that of Bush and co.
This is the choice I’m left with, and so I’ve made it. Just as it doesn’t matter what evidence ANYone presents to the Obama culties to change their minds about supporting him, neither will you convince people like me TO support him. This is where we are.
So frankly to argue the reasons for supporting or not supporting are pretty irrelevant. At this point speaking to those who do NOT know both sides and expressing the urgency for them to vote based on your arguments is all that matters. And of course actually getting them to turn out at the polls election day. Setting up sites like this is a waste of your time, you should focus on promoting your cult leader candidate, not attacking other sits promoting their positions against your Messiah. But it’s your time to waste as you will.
For anyone who’s interested in my personal opinions you can check out my youtube page here:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=tristkiss
June 30, 2008 at 9:44 am
buddy… you’re not a Democrat. You’ve never been a Democrat. You’re a Republican. Thanks for trying.
at least, I seem to have subdued the PUMA into writing this kind of unconvincing drivel.
respond to the points that were raised.
June 30, 2008 at 9:58 am
Oooops! I am tired, I spelled plethora wrong, my bad!
June 30, 2008 at 10:02 am
there you go changing the subject again, and I don’t even know what the hell you are talking about…
perhaps you’ve been at this for many days and are starting to wig out… maybe you are losing your mind. from reading your previous entries, I wouldn’t be surprised because it seemed like you were teetering on the edge of reason to begin with.
in any case, would you mind responding to this quote from Hillary Clinton?
Senator Clinton said in October, 2007,
“You know it’s clear this election they’re having in Michigan is not going to count for anything”
and this quote from John McCain?
one more time for the people
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
June 30, 2008 at 10:19 am
Steve,
You are very angry, drink some more Kool-Aid and chill down.
Obviously the PUMA votes matter to you, otherwise you wouldn’t be so crazy over such a small sentence among very serious flops made by Obama that would affect our country.
The DNC told Michigan that if they voted early their votes would not count. That is why Hillary said that. As a smart and experienced politician, Hillary decided to leave her name on the ballet just in case. She was wise in doing so. With politics one never knows what will happen, so Steve why did Mr. empty suit leave his name off the ballot? Why didn’t he plan ahead and take precautions in case the DNC decided to count the votes in the future? I think he also said that Michigan would not count Whether he said it on the record or not, (and I am sure that he did) he CHOSE to leave his name off the ballot. Obviously a decision only a rookie would make. Of course the citizens of Michigan would want their voices heard, we all pushed and the DNC decided to count the votes; however, the count was extremely unfair and biased. I want you to tell me why Obama left his name off of the ballot, why did he accept stolen delegates from Hillary as well as delegates from the undecided voters? If he had any tact, he would have admitted to his mistake and would not have accepted delegates he did not earn. This is exactly why your candidate of choice is untrustworthy. His past only proves his bad character, and lack of integrity.
I’ts about 3:20 am, I am going to sleep! Good night PUMAS!!!!
June 30, 2008 at 10:21 am
your response is bullshit, and I’ll tell you why in 2 quick minutes if you’ll stay up with me for a second
by the way, I’m thoroughly enjoying some koolaid right now baby
June 30, 2008 at 10:25 am
Obama didn’t put his name on the Michigan ballot as a symbolic measure to show that he was not the kind of candidate to play ugly political games and to show that he was quite happy to go along with the DNC rules which he has consistently done.
He did not put his name on the ballot because he knew that those votes were not meant to be counted and perhaps he hoped that Michigan would reconsider and have another vote later, one that would be counted… one that he would put his name on…
full disclosure… I’m from Michigan. I was upset about how things turned out as far as the confusion of the order of the primaries, but I don’t think Michigan should have played it the way it did in the first place…
look… Hillary kept her options open and then completely manipulated them in a cynical way that is disgusting…
Obama accepted the half-votes because that’s what the frickin’ DNC agreed upon.
Why the helll would he disagree with that and prolong the stupid issue?
He will be campainging heavily in Michigan for the general election I assure you
June 30, 2008 at 10:31 am
do you know why the PUMA votes are important to me? Because I am a person who believes that at this point in history there is no room anymore for bullshit in politics… we need sincerity and we need to crush cynicism and evil where we find it. PUMA was started by a Republican. I believe the entire operation is a shady Republican deal. 1of18million4Hill, you’re obviously the kind of person who simply accepts that politicians are going to be nasty and conniving, and so you’re just happy to go along with PUMA even though it’s a Republican machine to undermine ALL DEMOCRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the fact that this is impossible to deny is what makes me think you have to be a Republican and what makes me want to keep hacking at you until you admit it or until you admit that you’re a part of something that is simply WRONG!!
IRAQ WAR = 1,000s upon 1,000s of unnecessary deaths
McCain has always supported it and wants to continue it.
Obama never gave into the intense political pressure to agree with the war. He didn’t care if people would accuse him of being unpatriotic. He is consistent. give me one flip-flop.
look… I know people who have died in Iraq….
this election is a matter of life and death for me
PUMA represents Republican evil that shits in the face of all who died in Iraq simply because it falls in line with every cynical and disgusting thing that Republicans do to win elections.
OBAMA 08!!!!!!
June 30, 2008 at 10:40 am
One last thing Steve, since you so kindly offered to explain your journey into the Democratic Party I will be waiting for it. I bet you are one of the newbies. One of Obama’s targets. Someone he knew would “fall in line,” and “believe!”
I am going to sleep now but will give you mine tomorrow. I will not go into great detail over yearly local elections; however I voted for Democrats for 17 years except 1 time.
That was for Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has been great for California until now. Our funds are very low and he is cutting our healthcare budget. I have been busy with petitions, action alerts, and emails trying to fight it. He has valid reasons to cut the funding but he seriously should look into different options other than cutting healthcare.
I bet you are one of the newbies. One of Obama’s targets. Someone he knew would “fall in line,” and “believe!”
June 30, 2008 at 10:41 am
sorry for the repeat sentence my eyelids are barely hanging on!
June 30, 2008 at 10:45 am
I’ll write it up and explain it.. this will happen. finally an offer to have a sincere exchange!
… tomorrow, over some koolaid
June 30, 2008 at 10:47 am
Steve are you A.K.A. “Blatham?”
June 30, 2008 at 11:28 am
Thanks for the new website! Most of my comments have been deleted over at that bastion of free speech, NOQuarter. Of course, they have to make space for Larry Johnson’s “whitey tape” rumors and links to the grown conman in diapers known as Larry Sinclair. Who has room for dissent and truth??
June 30, 2008 at 1:20 pm
For our devotional purpose, let us linger on just four words, “Just get over it” and those words will be our sword! You have fogotten what it is, Mrs Randal, the power of pen soldiers when they march for freedom and justice in our country. We shall go far down the hillside of adversity as Yeshua love would have us go. He knows our strength, and He knows your weakness and your heart. You have no heart for this, for you see the injustice in it, but, you march with the darkness instead and you rather sell out the cluster of beautiful lightness and hold the rope around our country’s head for you bigorty party. Woe to you, Mr. Randal, for the pen soldiers will Never surrender and will never unite! This is our America!! He whose wisdom and omnipotence that create so great a universe to house us, will give the strength to the grassroots in order to take their swords against the evildoers that have removed our golden girl, Hillary. Call us, as you please names, for that is what we are expecting for your astrayed viewers, but, our journey has Just begun, and Puma, Justsaynodeal, Noquarter, and the rest of the pen soldiers will take back their country from the individuals who have cheated us from it. Listen, Koolaid children, the feet coming upon the steep of the slippery place far down the mountainside and you will find the PUMA growling with delight!
June 30, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I am a typical white person clinging to my guns and bible. I am also a lifelong democrat who will NEVER vote for Obama.
1 year experience, over 100 present votes on the tough issues, associations with radical elements of the far left, race baiting whenever you question his judgement, 20 years attending a black liberation(hate mongering racist) church.
Best part is being called a racist because I dare to question the “chosen one”, well for your info my wife is hispanic and my 2 daughters are multi racial.
I will vote McCain.
June 30, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Senator Obama has way more than one year of experience David.
Please look up the information.
Senator Obama has more legislative experience than Senator Hillary Clinton does.
Senator Obama is not the chosen one and only those from NoQuarter and other Republican sites have painted him as such.
Black Liberation Theology is a well respected for of Christianity, and I am sorry you are still using this as an excuse when the rest of America has moved on.
you sound JUST LIKE a Republican.. so I am going to continue.
June 30, 2008 at 1:38 pm
SoldierOfChrist- Senator Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible.
According to Representative Yvette Clarke, Democrat of New York, Mr. Obama then said, “However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I’m running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.”
Representative Diane Watson, Democrat of California, a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words — “Get over it.” She found them dismissive, off-putting.
“Don’t use that terminology,” Ms. Watson told Mr. Obama.
Congresswoman Clarke did not react the same way.
“I, personally, as a Hillary supporter, did not take that as something distasteful,” Ms. Clarke said. “Nothing like that.”
But, she added, Congresswoman Watson “latched on to those three words.”
In Ms. Clarke’s view, Congresswoman Watson thought Mr. Obama had just told her to “get over it.” She didn’t appreciate that, and she told him so and emphasized that it was a heated campaign and lot of healing remains to be done.
“I agree,” Mr. Obama said. “There’s healing on both sides.”
June 30, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Thank you, Christina!
I appreciate your wonderful work to both educate and expose the PUMA sites for what they are, thinly veiled distractions to detour angry and in some cases racist Clinton supporters into the ReTHUGlican camps. Once I saw these PUMA sites popping up like weeds, I knew there was something coordinated and orchestrated behind the efforts. I visited several sites and found on each site denied any dissenting opinion! You were either not allowed to post, or any posts that were deemed positive towards Senator Obama were simply deleted. This practice told me all I needed to know…
Thank you again Christina.
Keep your head up…
Paladin
June 30, 2008 at 2:42 pm
YouTube!
Elvis Presley, Hound Dog
You ain’t nothin’ but a hound dog
Cryin’ all the time
You ain’t nothin’ but a hound dog
Cryin’ all the time……
June 30, 2008 at 2:43 pm
June 30, 2008 at 4:05 pm
This shows it all how it is
http://www.theobamafile.com/
June 30, 2008 at 4:47 pm
It’s funny that you mention you don’t want the demorats to be swiftboated. Did you know the Democratic 527 groups have spent double the money that the Republican 527 groups have in this election? I find that interesting since that is the reason Mr. Obama said he wouldn’t take public financing because of these groups yet the groups on his side have paid more money. Moveon.org is going to do away with their 527 status but still put out ads. Did you see the mom with her baby boy Alex saying she didn’t want him to go to war? Did you think that might have been over the top? Did you know that no President can bring back the draft without the approval of the house and senate? Did you know that Justice Ginsburg stated last year she doesn’t believe Roe V. Wade would ever be overturned? Say god forbid it is, do you know states like in my state of WA there are already laws on the book that would make it legal in my state regardless of what the supreme court does on a federal level? If this is a big concern to the voters make sure you research the judges you are voting for on a state level because they are the ones that have the greater impact on decisions like Roe V. Wade were you live.
I am also very fact based when I look things up. You say that the PUMA founders are Republican. Do you have proof of that or is just a “feeling” you have? Did you find any contributions made to G.W. Bush or past Republican candidates? Anyone can look that up fundraising as it is public knowledge. I am not just going to take your word because you say it is fact.
June 30, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Independent voter- NO, I did NOT think the moveOn.org ad was over the top. I thought it was poorly made- but the message was clear and concise.
Go to opensecrets.org and you will see NONE of Senator Obama’s campaign takes money from PACs. MoveOn.org is a respectable coalition and I am a member of MoveOn.org because they rose to power in DEFENSE of President Bill Clinton and they are a fair and just cause.
I think Roe V Wade should be FEDERALLY allowed because southern Red States if given the opportunity will surely ban it.
The Surpreme Court of last year and the Surpreme Court of now are in a different mindset.
Yes. Contrbutions to John McCain during the 2000 elections were made by PUMA founders. This is FACT.
June 30, 2008 at 5:11 pm
I guess you missed my point about the moveon.org video about the draft. A draft has to be approved by the senate and congress. Do you think it would pass either body? If not, what is the point of the video? It tells a person if they don’t want to sign up to serve our country they don’t have to sign up. It is up to them as an individual to serve or not to.
If Roe V. Wade is an issue that is so important to voters wouldn’t you want to cross your t’s and dot your i’s? Do you think the democrats and Independents living in the red states should research the judges they are voting for to be placed on their courts and make sure they place judges that share their belief?
Let me get this the founders of Puma made a primary contribution to John McCain in 2000 (who was considered to be a VP contender for John Kerry and was known more as a democrat in his voting record) but those founders didn’t donate any money to the conservative republican G.W. Bush. Do you have a link to post so we the people can see the fact you type?
Obama isn’t going to take PAC money now but he did. As the LA Times notes, “Back in 2005 and 2006, Obama raised $123,283 from other political action committees and put them into a political action committee of his own. He called it Hopefund”. He might talk about it being wrong now but it didn’t stop him from taking it previously while he was working on his campaign to be the President.
June 30, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I’m not going to hog today like last night, but I have yet to get any of these phony ‘Hillary Dem’ McCain supporters to respond to this quote:
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
If it’s just a silly quote, why don’t you respond to it and admit that McCain doesn’t give a shit about Hillary or her family or her supporters unless they are silly enough to want to vote for him out of spite.
RESPOND TO THE QUOTE PUMA PEOPLE
June 30, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Steve I don’t condone that statement that you typed but I also didn’t condone Michelle Obama saying if a women can’t run her house how can she run the country? I am a Clinton Democrat but I am also an Independent and look at a candidate not a party. I look at a candidates character, judgement, voting record (resume), and platform. Can you tell me one bill that Obama has reached across the aisle and worked with a Republican to make great impact in Americans lives? I’m not talking about a bill he co-sponsored as anyone can add their name to the bill, even after it has been passed. Do you agree that it is going to take the republicans, democrats, and independents in the house and senate to make actual changes in our lives or do you think one party can do it alone?
June 30, 2008 at 5:33 pm
no independent, not ANYONE can add their name to a bill. You spit on the senatorial process when you speak like that. It is not easy to be a senator, nor is it easy to get a bill signed.
do you have a source that says a senator can add their name to a passed bill?
I do no condone the words of Michelle Obama. But Michelle Obama is not running for President, unlike JOhn McCain. So John McCain’s character is far more important than Michelle Obama’s.
Senator Obama has co-sponsored over 570 bills. and passed groundbreaking legislation. The Transparency act.
June 30, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Right on Christina! Also, Independent voter:
I did a search on that alleged Michelle quote and the only site that I’ve found that has anything about it is Obambi.wordpress
Could you give me a link to a more credible source regarding that quote? It looks like just another attempt to “Whitey” Michelle.
If she actually did say it, I agree that it is definitely crossing the line, but as Christina said, she’s not running for President, and it’s not half as bad as McCain himself saying,
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
If McCain loses the election and still wants to seriously help to curb global warming, then he would be quite smart to work with Obama on that issue. Obama is committed to that issue. McCain says he is, but it’s a little hard to believe don’t you think? That’s an issue that shouldn’t have anything to do with party lines, but it does, and Obama will act on it like no other President in our history has… so it is my challenge to McCain to help support the man who beats him on this issue. But it’s more likely that he will retract all the things he said about it and act to prevent legislation on the issue from passing through, just like Republicans have always done.
June 30, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Here is the link of Michelle Obamas comment about Hillary Clinton. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN1qZMBE9Gc
She did not say this once but many times on the campaign trail starting as early as Iowa. I do have to disagree with you that our first person should matter not just the candidate running. The first spouse is going to be representing our country around home and the globe and I think that is important. They will be speaking on our behalf as a country when they visit other nations. The message she is giving is if your spouse cheats on you, you can’t run any kind of business and be successful.
June 30, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Christina being a senator isn’t easy, nor is being the President. What leadership has Obama shown in the Senate? What bill has he introducted (one he SPONSORED) that has made great impacts on everyday Americans lives? It is leadership that is needed when being the President of the United States, wouldn’t you agree? He talks about the public financing now being broken, why didn’t he write legislation (regardless if it was was going to be passed or not) to take the step and try and fix what he says is broken? That would have been leadership, right?
June 30, 2008 at 6:34 pm
fair enough, the youtube video has it. She crossed the line. Went below the belt on that one. She made a dive into populist waters to appeal to the sense of humor of her crowd, and yes it was not fair to Hillary. But the thing about this is that it doesn’t represent who she is and what she has accomplished over the course of her lifetime. Read this entire article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/us/politics/18michelle.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=michelle+obama&st=nyt&oref=slogin
She is a very strong woman with a history of bridging the gap between blacks and whites, not the other way around. just read the article. She went too far with her comment, but many strong people often end up with their foot in their mouth once in a while. I still don’t think it compares whatsoever to McCain’s quote. Again:
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
This quote may not represent McCain’s entire history, but it is so obviously in the poorest of taste and is extremely hurtful and inconsiderate to Hillary and her family. Chelsea was 18 years old. You just can’t compare this to Michelle’s statement. Read the article on Michelle.
June 30, 2008 at 6:35 pm
independent voter-
Please click on these links and truly see for yourself. I cannot persuade you to do anything. It is up to you to decide.
I can only hope that you decide to vote Democrat.
Bills sponsored by Senator Obama this year:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?tab=bills&id=400629
Bills sponsored by John McCain this year:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?tab=bills&id=300071
June 30, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Christina with all due respect you are giving one year of John McCains record when you and I bought know he has been in the Senate much longer. It isn’t exactly comparing apples to apples, would you agree?
June 30, 2008 at 6:45 pm
****when you and I both know****
June 30, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Steve Says:
June 30, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I’m not going to hog today like last night, but I have yet to get any of these phony ‘Hillary Dem’ McCain supporters to respond to this quote:
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
-John McCain, June 1998, Rep. Fund-raiser
Sen. McCain made an apology to the Clinton’s in 1998, and they accepted. Sen. Clinton crossed over the aisle (as true moderates do) and has worked successfully with Sen. McCain on more then one occasion proving this issue is over and done with in Sen. Clinton’s mind. If in doubt her praise of Sen. McCain also should act as proof that Sen. McCain has been forgiven by the Clinton’s.
You are the one, because it suits you needs, making it a “headline” again, and maligning Chelsea Clinton with something that is 10 years old. All to gain a vote or two for Obama, now what does that make you?
June 30, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Yes, I acknowledge that repeating a quote that offensive to Chelsea does indeed spread its ugliness around. That’s true. But the truth is… it never was a headline to begin with. Most major news outlets never actually printed it out of respect for Chelsea and the rest of the family. I’m not trying to get this quote repeated on a national level. For me to repeat it on this particular page does not hurt Chelsea… she won’t be reading it, her family won’t be reading it. But the die-hard supporters of Hillary, who somehow have decided to vote for McCain, might perhaps reconsider voting for him upon reading this quote which was swept under the rug when it first came out. Yes, the Clintons and McCain made up and continued to work together as politicians do. I applaud Hillary for being able to do so. There are actually a lot of things I still appreciate about Hillary. But the point of this website is to point out the hypocrisy of PUMA and particularly the members who are supporting voting for McCain out of spite because Hillary lost the nomination.
June 30, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Steve so why repeat yourself and go on and on and on like a broken record?
I am sure a PUMA will not change there vote after reading your hogwash they will merley see how obam people work!
Good reasons here
- Why do you make us waste time looking for God when you know Him so well? – said a disciple of Hasan de Basra. – You could tell us what He is like.
- Yes – answered Hasan de Basra. – But it so happens that one afternoon I was standing in front of a swamp when I noticed a man getting ready to cross it. I shouted out: “Careful there, you could slip on a rock and get all wet!”
- The man answered back: “If that happens, I will be the only one to get dirty. So, Hasan, if you slip and fall in your path, all your disciples will slip and fall with you.”
“At that moment I understood: God is an individual challenge, each person is responsible for his own search. A master can share his experience, but never the results.”
June 30, 2008 at 7:10 pm
http://www.macsmind.com/wordpress/2008/02/27/obama-plans-to-disarm-america
When these words are spoken from a man who has no vision and is willing to strip us of our strength, then, you will find the Thunder of the masses of the mountain lions coming down from the purple hills of America poncing on the maxist man who is willing to give weakness to our Land of Plenty! What a marvelous comfort in days of darkeness, in hours of doubt and despair, in moments when a heavy sense of duty oppresses us, to know that our Mountain Lions are there to protect us when in need. So take you Anti-Puma, and join the flower children of yester year, and smell your flowers and sing peace, sing for change, and keep drinking the foul Koolaid that has clouded your wisdom, for these lions will not give up what makes our values and makes our strength!
June 30, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Also, I would like to point out that the fact that it is 10 years old doesn’t diminish its potency one bit. The reality is that 10 years ago, McCain had every reason to talk trash about the Clintons. Ten years later, now that he is aware of a website like PUMA, he has every reason to speak glowingly of her whenever he gets a chance. It is hypocrisy and it is cynical and conniving politics in action. I’m glad that he apologized, but c’mon, it doesn’t erase what the quote (which I will no longer repeat) say about him and how he truly feels.
PUMA was started by a Republican. McCain wants to sway angry Hillary voters. There is a clear and obvious attempt by Republicans to manipulate the anger of the Clintonites and to channel this anger into voting for McCain… this is not unlike Bush’s successful attempt to manipulate the nation’s anger and fear after 9/11 and channel this anger towards the war in Iraq.
The purpose of presenting the quote is to blow a huge hole in McCain’s efforts to win over Clintonites… That to me made it worth it to repeat the quote on this page.
June 30, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Well maybe those on the fence just fell off in the side of Johm Mccain because you went on and on and on about something 10 yrs ago…
lets face it were looking at the “NOW” time
Obama supporters will OFFER SO MUCH DAMAGE
Barack Obama’s own people will be the ONES who bring him down !!
Remember that many sit and read say nothing in Nov when they have that card in their hand they will remember yes they will!
Here is a snippet from this site the TOP snippet is the owners!
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU,
1:03 pm PDT, Jun 29, NotYour Sweetie, New York
Right on! Who do those PUMAS think they are not giving us the votes we are entitled to? They cling to antiquated notions like popular vote and need for competence in a candidates! It’s obvious they know nothing about the Democratic party! Burn them at the stake, I say!
Puma reminds me of a Manson like cult… Full of misguided souls in need of attention… Led by a Republican that has them conned into believing she is a Democrat. What a joke. No wonder why so many people are laughing at them.
And if your the owner of this site you are helping to spread the anger. YOUR SIMPLY just as culpable!
June 30, 2008 at 7:28 pm
JUST4 HILL.. if there really are people out there who were on the fence about McCain and then decided to vote for him because I presented a nasty, mean, misogynistic joke he made about Hillary and her family, then such people are sadly adverse to understanding truth and reason. Such people would be hopeless and would voting against their party for the most ridiculous reason imaginable.
June 30, 2008 at 7:34 pm
What childish talk, and saying that the Republican’s changed the minds of the Hillary supporters and that at the end the card will be read to vote “yes we can”. Are you blind and foolish? Can you not see why we refuse to vote for this man who has blinded the young? Even our own elected as Randal?
Friends of Barack Obama
William Ayers – American Terrorist
Raila Odinga – Cousin, Radical Islamist
Raul Reyes – Columbian Terrorist
Antonio Rezko – Muslim Slum Lord
Professor Khalidi – Muslim Terrorist Supporter
Reverend Wright – Racist Muslim Supporter/Preacher, Anti-American
Reverend James Meeks – Racist
Reverend Louis Farrakhan – Racist Nation of Islam / Faux Preacher
Reverend. Jesse Jackson – Racist – Anti-Semetic
Nadhmi Auchi – Muslim Billionaire
Sohaib Abassi – Muslim Millionaire
And let us NOW add the new one on the list:
The delicate fem loud mouth bigot against whites Priest.
And you call the PUMA a cult? But because of the above reasons that you cannot grasp by your human mind, we have, and we will rather vote for the broken arms old man, at least we know that he is a true hero and true american.
June 30, 2008 at 7:35 pm
along with these comments
remember you say Pumas are misguided Hillary supporters so the list is just growing here….
one never knows which comment can poke the beehive and it is simply the last sting…
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU,
1:03 pm PDT, Jun 29, NotYour Sweetie, New York
Right on! Who do those PUMAS think they are not giving us the votes we are entitled to? They cling to antiquated notions like popular vote and need for competence in a candidates! It’s obvious they know nothing about the Democratic party! Burn them at the stake, I say!
Puma reminds me of a Manson like cult… Full of misguided souls in need of attention… Led by a Republican that has them conned into believing she is a Democrat. What a joke. No wonder why so many people are laughing at them.
June 30, 2008 at 7:52 pm
SoldierofChrist
The list will just continue to grow!
Do not wait for leaders-do it alone, person to person.
- Mother Teresa
and that is exactly what the PUMAS are doing~~
pass it along…
June 30, 2008 at 8:27 pm
So, in response to the request of 1of18million4Hill to follow-up on my promise, I will present a brief description of my journey into becoming a Democrat, as an effort to introduce a more civil and sincere exchange of personal journeys towards deciding who to vote for in the current election. I believe that by having people provide their own background honestly, we will promote understanding each other more and become less inclined to sound like robots repeating dogma. This may seem irrelevant, but what could be more relevant than presenting your personal journey towards making your decision in the most honest way possible. So, henceforth, if I continue to post on this page it will be in a moderated tone of only sticking to my own beliefs and trying to introspectively understand why I believe what I believe verse what others believe…. the journey will be posted soon.
June 30, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I am a 25 year old white male. I was born in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which is a liberal town, home to the University of Michigan, which I attended, and which both of my parents attended. My father was a lawyer who ran for office twice as a Democrat in the state. My mother is a computer scientist who currently works for the University of Michigan. My mother was a life long Democrat who came of age politically during the hell of Vietnam and the birth of the Civil Rights movement. My father was born into a Republican family but over time changed his mind when he realized that Republicans far too often “put their shiny boots in the faces of those in need”. Yes, I was raised to understand the need of a social safety net. I was raised to feel compassion for under-represented minorities and homosexuals. I was raised with God in my life, but also raised to not get sucked into the Republican Right’s attempt to co-opt religion with excessive dogma. I was raised to value the great importance of the natural environment. I was raised with an appreciation for public service and the need for activism on the part of concerned citizens. And yet, when it came time for my first chance to vote, during the 2000 elections, I did not want to immediately just jump into the Gore camp, because I wanted to understand the candidates more….
June 30, 2008 at 9:06 pm
…Attending Michigan for my first year, there was a lot of talk about how horrible Bush was, but I needed to figure this out for myself. I read and read and read and discovered the Gore’s political history fit with my values far more than Bush. But it wasn’t until the Iraq war, from its lead-up to its current manifestation, that I truly became the Democrat that I am today. I became an avid reader of the news after Sept. 11. And I was closely following the Iraq issue. From the beginning I didn’t believe there was enough evidence to support the war. I could clearly see what was happening. The Bush Administration was manipulating people’s legitimate fears to make them think that invading Iraq was a necessary action. You all know the story now. It’s out in the open, but at the time, hardly any politicians were speaking out against it for fear of being labeled unpatriotic. Barack Obama early on stated his concerns that the war was rash and unnecessary and would only make the world less safe. He was a clear-thinking and strong man then, unafraid to make unpopular strong statements, and he is that same man today…
June 30, 2008 at 9:06 pm
…Iraq has been a disaster. So many lives lost unnecessarily. So much suffering. And all for this neo-con agenda that both Bush and McCain were caught up in.
Yes, McCain has been a continual supporter of the war and has hardly ever acknowledged any negative aspects of it. Of course, now that we are there, we must finish the job well, and I believe that Obama is the man to do that. McCain, having been a part of the Republican push for the war, a part of the propagandistic efforts, is not the man for the job, because he will never be honest with the American people about the state of Iraq. Obama will be honest and will do the right thing to pull out our troops over a reasonable amount of time, and put the Iraq issue in the hands of the Iraqi government. Yes, the war in Iraq is the main issue for me. My brother works for Bechtel and was in Iraq for a full year. He was not killed by a friend of his was. It’s also personal for me. There’s plenty more to say about Republican’s verse Democrats and there are sooo many other issues worth talking about, but I just wanted to present this piece as a way to encourage others to do something similar so that we can where one another are coming from more.
June 30, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Steve,
I will begin this large task by saying that unlike your journey into the Democratic party, my family did not discuss politics. While growing up my parents and family focused on achievement rather than politics. While in junior high I was focused on cheerleading, mentoring and tutoring kindergarteners as well as third graders and my grades. As I moved into high school I was still focused on cheerleading, grades, getting into a good school, mentoring middle school students and I became very active with my youth group. I founded an un-paid program where older children at my youth group could assist in classrooms with the younger children and mentor them. It is called the “Mitzvah Corps.” I still have my founding certificate. I became the Treasurer of my youth group, attended and organized events and fundraising to keep us going and would attend weekend camps. I eventually became the V.P. of my youth group and was chosen to New Orleans to represent my area.
June 30, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Steve — I applaud you for attempting to reason with so many unreasonable people. The fact is that a large portion of PUMA is comprised of the very same people that delivered us eight years of President Bush. Even the tactics they use (spreading rumors about Obama being a closet Muslim) are nearly identical to the Swift Boaters attempts to malign Kerry’s service in 2004.
One thing that warrants repetition is that PUMA in NO WAY represents the vast majority people who supported Hillary Clinton. Most of them realize what four years of another Republican president would entail for our country.
June 30, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Sorry, I accidentally hit the enter key! So, I went to New Orleans to represent our area. It was at this time in the year 1989 that I met someone who was determined to become a politician. He spoke of the issues of the present day, and I became slightly interested until he started hanging on me and after the 7 day convention in New Orleans sent me many love notes
) He also sent me a photograph of a political event that he attended. In the photo he was standing next to President Regan. I felt overwhelmed with his deep beliefs in politics while I was still committed to my duties in high school. That year I was a science camp counselor for 7th grade girls. The following year would prove to be the most significant to me politically. My cheerleading team came in 1st place in our regional competition and I was accepted to the college of my choice, Chico State University where I planned on becoming a Nurse. I was still involved in my youth group, BUT that year I had a U.S. History/Economics teacher that brought politics to the forefront for me just in the nick of time! I would turn 18 that year and he wanted to ensure that all of his students registered to vote.
Since you provided a family background;
Mom grew up in Minnesota, attended some college then married my father. Later held a position as a buyer for 24 years, and passed away due to cancer in 2004.
Dad grew up in Rochester N.Y. and I am sad to say that I am unsure of his entire upbringing. We were not super close and my paternal grandparents passed away very young. My dad attend some courses at Dartmouth, but after having children had to provide for the family. He took a position as a finance manager and was transferred to California. He later finished his Bachelor’s in Finance at The University of Phoenix.
(Both Parents Were Republican)
My Mother’s side:
My Aunt didn’t attend school, but eventually became a Human Resources Manager, she married my uncle who attended The University of Michigan and started out as an attorney but later decided to go into business for himself in the retail market.
My younger cousin graduated from The University of Michigan and is a corporate attorney in N.Y. and teaches a couple of nights per week at a school in N.Y. He never sleeps!
His wife is also an attorney. I do not know much about her.
My older cousin graduated from The University of Arizona and then Santa Clara University along with his wife. They both work at one of the largest companies in the Bay Area.
My Father’s side:
I do not know as much about:
I have no idea where they went to school, but my uncle is an attorney in N.Y., and his wife is a published writer.
I attended Chico State, changed my major a few times, went home so I did not waste money and got an Associates at a J.C. I have a Bachelor’s of Science in Business Management from the University of Phoenix. I got tired of working for the man and am currently working for two non-profits as volunteers. I am a lobbyist for one of the causes. The other foundation is teaching me essential skills for the non-profit world.
Moving right along, I am 34 and female. My family is divided, all over the place Republicans and Democrats, but I would say more Dems. Including my 87 year old grandmother who is terrified of having Obama as our next President.
At 18, in 1991 I registered to vote. I took another U.S. history class in 1992 and I will continue in a bit on the rest of my Democratic path.
June 30, 2008 at 10:13 pm
thank you, this is all very interesting and appreciated, and I look forward to hearing more…
June 30, 2008 at 10:58 pm
The only thing “Steve Says” look forward to hearing is MORE of, is his own words and views echoed back at him. It’s no wonder you and “Christina” are Obama supporters, you both are just like him; all ego and no substance. Keep blogging to yourselves all day long, reassuring yourselves that you are the smarter true democrat vote. But remember we all get 1 vote, and mine counts as much as yours. Plan A: Vote Clinton, Plan B: Vote McCain.
June 30, 2008 at 11:19 pm
hey b-word,
take a look at the previous few posts, I am currently in the midst of a dialogue with 1of18million4Hill, and we are sharing our personal journey’s towards becoming Democrats. I have put aside what I was doing earlier and specifically asked for a more civil dialogue. I appreciated 1of18million4Hill had to share and I look forward to reading more. I think we are finally getting somewhere.
I also invite you to share your story instead of trying to steer things back into ugly fighting.
Please do share. I would love to read your story.
By the way, I would very much like you to explain more what you mean about how I don’t have any substance to my views.
June 30, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Wow Steve, I introduce myself giving a little background and you call me a liar right off the bat. But why stop at just saying I’m lying about ever having been a Dem. Why not say I’m lying about being female, black, American, an actual living breathing person. Maybe I’m just ghost!
The point is, there IS no point it even trying to talk to someone who treats a guest to this site so rudely and accuses them of lying if it in anyway suits them in trying to discredit you. Why I expected any more from an Obama supporter is beyond me.
Sorry I wasted my time even coming on here.
June 30, 2008 at 11:27 pm
thebword:
We already know that you could care less about what another four years of Republican rule would mean for this country. The purpose of shining the light on PUMA is so that people on the fence have available a better picture of what the organization is and who is behind it.
June 30, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Why is being an Obama supporter a bad thing to PUMA Trist? Why do you use that as an insult?
June 30, 2008 at 11:37 pm
the B-word: i have been nothing but civil to EVERY PUMA on my site. I ask you to be the same in return with me. I am not doing this for “ego” and I don’t understand exactly where you draw that conclusion. But I do find it offensive, and excuse me but I take that it is from your PUMA leaders telling you all to come here and “say how you feel.” or “attack” because that is a TRUE SIGN of “free thinking” and “intelligence”
Right? They tell you to come here and post?
like they advocate here
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=18603
Yeah, it’s good to know that yestodemocracy is a threat to PUMA, otherwise they wouldn’t have hijacked the site OR the petition. When you don’t care about something- you don’t engage in it.
June 30, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Steve, in going back through my reasons to register democrat, I asked myself, “why are half of my family registered Republicans?” Honestly, I have not paid attention to the “party” beliefs since around 1993. All I really remember is getting an education that did not cover the history of Republicans and Democrats of the 19th century and the early 20th century. My history courses focused more on the issues facing America around the time, which was 1991 because of the Gulf War. This was bad on my part as a voter to only study what I had to in order to pass tests and get the grades I desired rather than to go back into the deep roots of the Repulican and Democratic parties.
I was taught through lectures and perhaps by biased textbooks from the 1980’s that I sold back to the school that the Democratic Party does not discriminate against people due to class, race, region, religion, ethnicity and sexual orientation. The Democratic Party was said to govern by the same principles that have made America the great nation it is today. The party focused on principles of strength, inclusion and opportunity. It was the party ruled by the people. The Democratic party favored the working class by creating more jobs, and lowering taxes for the middle class. The rich were against the Democrats because they had to pay more taxes under Democratic rule. The Democrats believed in force only when necessary; however, if a war took place there would never be a draft.
What I remember of the Republican party is that they were for the wealthy and big business. They were not pro-choice, they favored war and having drafts. They believed in capital punishment (which I do believe in.) They were not for equal rights for all.
Then a young Senator William Clinton announced that he would be running as the Democratic Nominee for the 1992 Presidential election. It was my first chance to vote and I was going to take this very seriously. I started to pay attention to the promises of each candidate. President Bush, Sr. and Clinton. At first I noticed Bill’s character and also felt as though he would bring something new, real CHANGE to the White House. I remember proudly going to the poll in 1992 with my ballot guide in tow that I carefully filled out. I walked to my booth and I was actually shaking! I had a tough time punching through the paper! I remember punching the ticket for Clinton/Gore, then the rest of the ballot. I gave my ballot to an elderly woman working the polls. She handed me a sticker that said “I voted,” and I proudly went to school that day with my sticker. I could not wait to get home that night to watch the election! My father was a bit upset at me because he voted for Bush and so did my mother at my father’s request. She told me that she wished she voted for Bill because she actually did like him. Anyway when the announcement came that he won, and the balloons and confetti dropped and Fleetwood Mac “Don’t Stop Thinkiing About Tomorrow Played.” I was ecstatic! I knew that the best candidate won and I was very proud! I voted to re-elect President Clinton in 1996 as well. In 2000 I voted for Al Gore. I knew him as the VP and after all that Clinton and Gore accomplished together, I hoped to god that he won, but unfortunately Bush won and we still don’t know how that happened??? In 2004 I voted for Kerry.
Please tell me how much more you want to know.
July 1, 2008 at 12:04 am
trist…
I apologize for my previous comments accusing you of lying. I was having real trouble believing. I still do, but I do take it back. I’m trying to amend that kind of behavior now by entering into a real dialogue here.
July 1, 2008 at 12:06 am
Christina
You find everything offensive why on earth did you set this site up your offeneded by EVERYTHING.
Just a reminder were offended by these comments our comments are mild compared to your own and others…
one never knows which comment can poke the beehive and it is simply the last sting…
I will say this though- no longer can you PUMA republicans accuse Obama supporters of being “vicious” or “stupid” or “drunk” ….because it is now YOU,
1:03 pm PDT, Jun 29, NotYour Sweetie, New York
Right on! Who do those PUMAS think they are not giving us the votes we are entitled to? They cling to antiquated notions like popular vote and need for competence in a candidates! It’s obvious they know nothing about the Democratic party! Burn them at the stake, I say!
Puma reminds me of a Manson like cult… Full of misguided souls in need of attention… Led by a Republican that has them conned into believing she is a Democrat. What a joke. No wonder why so many people are laughing at them.
July 1, 2008 at 12:10 am
YES! jack and you and others will make sure those on the fence will topple in John McCain with your could not care less attitude etc etc..
Please continue
July 1, 2008 at 12:14 am
Why is being an Obama supporter a bad thing to PUMA Trist? Why do you use that as an insult?
Just the same as u have said over and over here your offended Christina
But I do find it offensive
I find THAT extremely offensive as well.
so how many times are you going to say our mild comments are offensive?
July 1, 2008 at 12:14 am
I have since done research on the parties and am very surprised at what I have found out about the Democratic Party up until the time of JFK. Amazing!
July 1, 2008 at 12:26 am
Oh so you just found out about the democratic party before the civil rights movement?
Well, yes, that is how the REPUBLICAN party is now. Times have changed.
July 1, 2008 at 12:33 am
Christina your just too condisending to even think about..
I can see why your attracted to the wrong side of the fence.
I thought you were being civil….
No you just have to stoke the fire until everyone is off again.
Some good “Change and Hope” we have here
July 1, 2008 at 12:35 am
What have I said that isn’t civil?
July 1, 2008 at 12:37 am
you know I find it offensive you have to make snide remarks and twist posts as though some are repbublicans I find that less than civil.
So just stoke some more get that fire blazing!
July 1, 2008 at 12:49 am
Cristina,
May I ask if you even know what I am talking about? If so, I’d like an explaination so I can see if you are correct in insulting me.
July 1, 2008 at 12:49 am
Oh did I spell your name wrong, my bad!
Am I going to vote for Obama, NO DEAL!
July 1, 2008 at 1:07 am
Thank you for sharing your history. The only thing more that I really want to know now is about your current choice not to vote for Obama. Are you voting for McCain? What are your main real reasons for being so against Obama?
July 1, 2008 at 1:10 am
I didn’t insult you 1 of 18 mill.
I assumed you spoke of the legislative accomplishments of the Republican Party during the Civil Rights movement as well as the womens rights movements. But to think that the Republican party is still this way is untrue.
July 1, 2008 at 1:23 am
Guys, guys! Don’t you know that the ONLY reason anyone wouldn’t vote for Barack Obama is racism? And we Republicans? Well, we are just evil incarnate…racists to the core. (Never mind that the KKK was a Democrat organization!)
Only racism and party loyalty keeps us from voting for a man with zero accomplishments since he’s been in DC, zero experience and wearing a Teflon shield while his surrogates make vicious remarks FOR HIM.
(Funny how he wants to run the world but he juuuuust can’t keep his close associates from saying/doing shocking things on his behalf.)
BTW, I’m not a member of anything mentioned here. I’m a plain, old Republican who, frankly, will be holding my nose if and when I vote for McCain because of the amnesty issue.
But I happened across this forum and I’m pretty sick of Republicans being attacked just because they don’t want to vote for the most left-wing guy in the Senate.
PS: It’s not Obama who is coming up with all this inspirational stuff – it’s his top aid and speechwriter, David Axelrod. Take the Teleprompter away from Obama and he’s lost.
July 1, 2008 at 1:28 am
yo whadup Linche…
your talk aint adequate… just a bunch of hot air…
give us something real.
July 1, 2008 at 2:19 am
Just4Hill: Sorry to disappoint, but I’ve confronted and convinced several former Hillary supporters to vote for Obama in ‘08. All it takes is a healthy dose of facts about McCain and his Swiftboat minions, including PUMA.
How appropriate that today we just learned that McCain has recruited a former Swiftboater that he once condemned for the mistreatment of Senator Kerry’s war record.
July 1, 2008 at 2:42 am
LOL how funny is that??
a swiftboater??
Your not dissapointing me you do it to yourself your so funny LOL
Here is Obama’s list
The Obama File
Barack Hussein Obama
http://www.theobamafile.com/
William Ayers – American Terrorist
Raila Odinga – Cousin, Radical Islamist
Raul Reyes – Columbian Terrorist
Antonio Rezko – Muslim Slum Lord
Professor Khalidi – Muslim Terrorist Supporter
Reverend Wright – Racist Muslim Supporter/Preacher, Anti-American
Reverend James Meeks – Racist
Reverend Louis Farrakhan – Racist Nation of Islam / Faux Preacher
Reverend. Jesse Jackson – Racist – Anti-Semetic
Nadhmi Auchi – Muslim Billionaire
Sohaib Abassi – Muslim Millionaire
And let us NOW add the new one on the list:
The delicate fem loud mouth bigot against whites Priest.
Yes this is pretty healthy !!
July 1, 2008 at 2:59 am
Oops! Looks like the cat (or PUMA is out of the bag).
It was never about enfranchising voters or helping Hillary at all for you. It was always about defaming Obama’s character through conspiracy-based association theories. Thanks for proving my point about PUMA, Just4Hill.
July 1, 2008 at 4:41 am
Christina, I was referring to the following facts:
Democrats won nearly every presidential election in the years 1836 – 60, but the issue of slavery split the party. The Southern Democrats called for the protection of slavery in the new territories, whereas the Northern Democrats, led by Stephen A. Douglas, advocated allowing each territory to decide by popular sovereignty whether to accept slavery within its borders. As a result, in 1860 the new antislavery Republican Party won its first national victory under Abraham Lincoln.
Democrats alienated some of their key demographics in the 1900’s as well. This is where I see how my father and his parents chose to be Republican as they were part of the population excluded due to the KKK.
July 1, 2008 at 4:48 am
Linche, I didn’t see your comment up there, but that is exactly what I was trying to say! The KKK was part of the Democratic party, and they were pro-slavery as well.
I have been a registered Democrat for 17 years always wondering why my parents were Republicans and now I know why! The KKK! The KKK would kill my family in an instant!
July 1, 2008 at 6:01 am
the KKK? what are you talking about?
I enjoyed sharing histories with you there. It seemed like you were opening up to discussing things from a sincere and honest perspective, but now you’re back to just a whole bunch of hot air. What does the KKK have to do with the matters at hand? This is just silly talk. It is this kind of stuff that causes me to believe that you have been a Republican all along, even after reading the history you provided. I am starting to believe that you told the truth about everything apart from the stuff about ever voting Democratic. It just doesn’t add up. No… it doesn’t add up one bit.
July 1, 2008 at 7:45 am
[...] is unfair and undemocratic.” Really Ed. Hound is not Anti-Puma? Then what do you call these clowns? Don’t you find it kind of amusing that their site url is named “Yes To [...]
July 1, 2008 at 8:46 am
The aftermath of World War I brought the Democrats new problems. Wilson sponsored the Fourteen Points as principles by which the victorious Allies might lay the foundations of a lasting peace at Versailles. These were hailed abroad and widely admired at home. Wilson’s devastating stroke, his consequent lack of judgment, and his failure to cooperate with the Republican-controlled Congress doomed the Versailles Treaty’s passage in the Senate, and the failure of the United States to participate in Wilson’s cherished League of Nations. The war’s aftermath brought other problems on the home front. The passage of the Espionage and Sedition Acts and the “Palmer RAids” led by Wilson’s attorney general against domestic radicals tarnished the Democrats’ record as the defender of civil liberties. It also harmed the party’s image among those ethnic minorities, such as Italians and Jews, singled out for persecution.
The 1920s were a period of eclipse for the Democrats. The party was bitterly divided over ethnocultural issues, including Prohibition, immigration restriction, and whether or not to recognize the Ku Klux Klan. The Democratic Party was deeply divided between Drys and Wets, Protestants and Catholics, Klansmen and their antagonists. Even among what Wilson called “hyphenated Americans,” there were deep divisions between northern and southern Europeans, old and new immigrants, Catholics and Jews. With Al Smith’s nomination for president in 1928, the latter divisions between non-Protestant immigrants disappeared and the urban Progressive Smith led a new generation of Italian and Jewish Americans into the Democratic fold, where they would later support Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal. Smith, however, proved too much of an urban stereotype for Protestant Democrats in the South and West. His accent, his Catholicism, and his antagonism to Prohibition alienated many Democrats in the South and West into voting Republican for the first time in their lives. In 1928 Smith carried only two heavily Catholic states outside the Deep South: Massachusetts and Rhode Island. The Solid South was no longer solid in the face of a Catholic running for president. Smith lost the Upper South, where fear of Catholicism triumphed over hatred of Republicans. Only in the Deep South (including heavily Catholic Louisiana) did the loathing of Republicans prove stronger than fear of a Catholic in the White House.
July 1, 2008 at 9:03 am
American sponsorship of decolonization in India and the Middle East gave Americans greater leverage in those newly emerging states. The United States’ recognition of Israel cemented a lasting relationship in the Middle East, despite the antagonism of European allies and the emerging Arab states.
After Kennedy’s assassination, President Lyndon Johnson inherited Kennedy’s civil rights and limited war initiatives. In the hands of Johnson, widely considered the most effective majority leader of the Senate, sweeping civil rights legislation passed Congress for the first time since Reconstruction. The Democrats, once the party supporting white supremacy, inaugurated an era of Second Reconstruction with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Bill of 1966. These measures and Johnson’s sponsorship of a War on Poverty brought to life the full promise of inclusion for African Americans. That this was achieved by a southerner, thanks to his extraordinary legislative abilities, was an irony lost neither on blacks nor on his fellow white southerners. The Vietnam War, however, proved to be Johnson’s worst nightmare. He would not withdraw and he could not escalate the war without risking a nuclear war with the Soviet Union and with China. Johnson was left in a war he could not win, and he refused to run for re-election in a year in which the Democrats seemed bent on self-destruction.
The election of Bill Clinton in 1992 seemed to argue a return to more of the activist policies of the Democrats in earlier eras.
http://www.answers.com/topic/democratic-party
July 1, 2008 at 9:14 am
BTW: You can accuse us of being Republicans all you want, but in November when they study the voting patterns, and they will, you “may” finally learn that we are Democrats who crossed party lines to vote for the candidate that we believe has the qualifications to be Commander in Chief. Continue to call us Repubs all you want! Do it until you’re blue in the face, but in November you will know the truth about PUMA! None of this would be going on had there been a fair election. If every state was counted and every vote was counted as a full vote then we could believe that the DNC did not select Nobama for us, and that he was elected. Just remember this has a lot to do with the DNC’s choice of candidate as he is not qualified, it is largely an issue we have with the “dirty” politics of this “new” Democratic party that we never knew existed.
July 1, 2008 at 12:19 pm
1/18 mill: I have no doubt that you, yourself, used to be a Democrat. I take issue with the founders of PUMA and backers who turn more and more Republican each day.
No Democrat would vote for someone who wants to continue a war and plans to start another.
politics has always been dirty. That is the bitter-sweetness of it.
July 1, 2008 at 5:50 pm
I/18 :
i pushed your buttons because you had been leaving many ‘hot air’ comments that seemed as if they were coming from a Repub who was trying to confuse issues and distract from the matters at hand. (Repubs tend to do that sort of thing you know). People with real concerns and intelligent reasoning are far less likely to do that. You responded with a detailed history, that incorporated your comments about the KKK, but this still hardly demonstrates how that particular piece of history relates to the current debate over Obama and McCain.
You have yet to clearly define why YOU feel McCain is right for YOU on a personal level. You refer to “the candidate that we believe has the qualifications”… explain McCain’s qualifications and why YOU personally agree with them.
Also, you continue to refer to “the great injustice” of the DNC’s handling of the controversial issue of Florida and Michigan as your main reason for not voting for Obama. We already discussed this, and you admitted that you thought Obama simply was a “rookie” for not putting his name on the Michigan ballot in the first place. Then you argue that he somehow stole the votes when the DNC, not him, decided to cut those votes in half. Obama simply went along with the DNC decisions the entire time. Hillary is the one who claimed that the to states wouldn’t matter and then did a turn-around and started the spin about injustice and stealing votes. The entire thing was a mess, I admit, but for you to spin it they way you do and then for you to use this spin as your primary argument against Obama is just weak.
Give me your REAL REASONS for voting for McCain, in depth.
and give me your REAL REASONS for not voting for Obama, in depth.
All this phony spinning of the DNC issue doesn’t cut it… it’s weak logic and weak arguing.
July 1, 2008 at 6:33 pm
I am an independent but voted for a democrat since I could vote in 96. I was a Floridian voter in 2000 and I can tell you it is not a good feeling to know you went to the poll and someone else decides the fate of your votes. To me democracy died in the democratic party when all rules were not followed, they were cherry picked by the rules committee. Did you know that Obama campaigned in Florida by airing ads there the week leading up to the primary? Ads are part of campainging wouldn’t you agree? According to the rules that the by-law committee had in front of them a candidate who campaigns in a state that moved up their primary date would have those delegates taken away from them. Did Obama end up getting Florida delegates? Then the state of Michigan was addressed and the DNC DECIDED what they thought the voters of Michigan WOULD do. Since when in any election has a party DECIDED what people would have done? That was the day democracy died for me. I had the democratic party stand up and tell me as a florida voter in 2000 that they would continue to fight to make sure my voice was heard. I have since moved to the West Coast but what about them fighting for all voices to be heard? I am moderate in my believes and for one a liberal agenda is not one I support, nor do I a conservative one. 2004 was an easy choice as Bush was too conservative for me and at that time we were a Republican controlled house and senate and I am a big believer in the need of balance of power as our founders thought of us having. In this election if the Republican party had nominated Mike Huckabee I would be looking at 3rd party candidates but McCain is a moderate who has been one of the biggest republicans that crossed the aisle and voted with the democrats. Why do you think he was being considered for Kerrys VP? I cannot support a candidate that says one thing but his little bit of a record to look at shows another. I cannot support a candidate that has shown poor judgement in who he associates with. I cannot support someone who does not have much experience. This has been upsetting to me as I was very moved by Obama when I first saw him speak at the 2004 DNC convention. He had me so moved and I thought one day this man will be big in the party. I actually went and saw his rally when it came to my city. I am very moved by his words but at the end of the day they are just words. When I look at his record it doesn’t match with what he says he wants to do. He said he was a new way of politics but so far I’ve seen the same old. He has went from his liberal agenda in the primary to a more moderate one in the general election. He has said he would be strict on NAFTA in the primary now backing away from it, he said he would bring our troops home in the primary but is now saying probably not until 2013. He said he would meet with dictators without any preconditions in the primary now he is saying he will have preconditions.
Talk is great but I want to see action. It bothers me that he has not crossed the aisle to work with the other side. To me change is only going to happen when everyone comes together and finds a solution. Not one idea is a great idea, it takes a lot of people coming together to find one. Think of it as in business….I don’t know about you but as a buyer I worked with many people, my planner, my co-workers, management, etc. to come up with a way to be successful as a group and profitable. Being an Independent is a nice thing because I don’t focus on a party I focus on the candidate. Hillary Clinton is my first choice and I was honored to be a delegate for her at my district level. To me it doesn’t have to do with sour grapes it has to do with the actions of the DNC and the inexperience of the candidate they picked. I am looking at this as if it were a job interview. I have the resumes in front of me and that is what I am looking at.
July 1, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Christina you say, “No Democrat would vote for someone who wants to continue a war and plans to start another.” I’m assuming you are talking about Iran when you are talking about starting another? What did you think when Hillary said we will do what we need to do in Iran and we would obliterate them if we have to. Did you think that was a stance she shouldn’t have taken as a democrat? Were you okay with Iran saying they would wipe us and Israel off the map? I would hope that our country would protect us if need be, don’t you?
July 1, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Mr. Independent,
I appreciate your ability to calmly present your point of view and your willingness to stick to the issues at hand. However, I strongly disagree with many of your points. Here are my rebuttals. In response to your information about Obama’s ad in Florida, I will tell you that the AD that he ran was a NATIONAL AD. He specifically looked into excluding Florida from receiving this ad but found that it would be impossible to run a 49-State-only ad. Just read this article… it clearly states this fact. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8019.html
What you present does not incriminate Obama at all. Obama did not walk away from his pledge. I will tell you this much. I don’t know why Obama and the other candidates did not take their names off the Florida ballot, but I do know that he, and every other candidate apart from Hillary, took his name off of Michigan’s ballot, and that shows enough that he took the DNC timing rules seriously.
And I do not know what you mean about democracy dying because of the decision regarding Michigan. What do you suggest that they were supposed to do about Michigan? His name was NOT ON THE BALLOT. How does democracy die when Obama took his name off the ballot? The fact that they decided to count the votes at all was quite a concession on the part of the DNC. Do you understand that? Why is that democracy dying?
Also, as far as Obama saying things that move more towards the center over the course of this campaign, I assure you that this is what happens when a candidate moves into the general election. This is not cynical, ugly politics. This is a candidate rephrasing some points for the purpose of trying to appeal to the broader population. Yes, he has softened somewhat on some points, but you have not presented any major flip flops.
A MAJOR flip-flop of McCain however was him deciding to make permanent Bush’s tax cuts for the rich after he had initially derided such horrible tax cuts. How do you defend that?
I also urge you to read this article.
July 1, 2008 at 7:10 pm
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88212282
July 1, 2008 at 7:18 pm
On the subject of Iran: If you’ve done any research on Iran, you would know that the vast majority of people in Iran hate their president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He is not a spokesperson for the people whatsoever. So when you ask, “Were you okay with Iran saying they would wipe us and Israel off the map?” you are making an inflammatory remark that puts all of Iran’s people in the same box as their insane president. I know that Ahmadinejad has said completely insane and horrible things about the evil of the US and about Israel being a “rotting corpse” that will be destroyed. Obviously I don’t condone this kind of talk in any way.
Now, for Hillary to say she wants to “completely obliterate Iran” starts to make her sound frighteningly like Ahmadinejad himself. Don’t you agree?
Mr. Independent…. you sir, are accusing Christina of being uninterested in the safety of the US and Israel just like any Republican politician using the politics of fear and intimidation.
Don’t you realize that we have to move forward carefully regarding Iran? Don’t you understand that we must choose our words carefully? “Obliterate” is not the kind of word to use. And yes, I regret that Hillary, being a Democrat, would use such language.
Iran poses a real threat. We must proceed carefully. Obama understands the great failures of Iraq and understands the great need to proceed intelligently.
July 1, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Steve- I encourage you to email MURPHY.
Go to our homepage and use our form letter.
Your support is awesome. It is what keep this thing going!
July 1, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Steve as a media buy you can take ads off the air for a weeks time. There were no primaries that would have effected him by making that move but he chose not to just like he chose to take his name off of the Michigan ballot. He could have started airing his national ad the night of the Fl. Primaries after all votes were counted.
Not all candidates took their name off the ballot. Dennis Kucinch, Chris Dodd, and Hillary Clinton all left there name on the ballot in Michigan…so it wasn’t just Hillary as you say.
Democracy died because 600K people went out to cast their vote. Do you think every voter that voted uncommitted voted for Obama only and not Richardson or Edwards? Also taking 4 delegates away from Hillary (votes that were cast for her) is democratic how? That is what I meant by democracy died…the DNC decided what to do not what the people decided to do with their vote. Beyond being kind to Obama by giving him all uncommitted voters they also gave him hillarys voters votes. Do you see what I am saying?
You are saying Obama is moving to the middle for political reasons which I agree with. However didn’t Obama say that he is of new politics. How is that new?
I’m just telling christina what another democrat said on national tv about iran. Actually the gov’t is going to possibly bomb the nuclear sites Iran has if they don’t. You are okay with a country that says they want us to be wiped out of the map to keep nuclear arms? Last time I checked all candidates running for President believe in a strong diplomatic effort. If it doesn’t work, shouldn’t we as a country have a plan B?
You dont’ think Mccain knows the great failures of Iraq….I remember him being very vocal to the Bush administration and working on getting Donald Rumsfield out of office for his poor leadership. What has Obama done in the Senate to stand up about the failures in Iraq?
July 1, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Ok, you’re right, it wasn’t just Hillary, I made a mistake there, but let’s just say the bigger players, with a better chance took their names off apart from Hillary. As much as I personally appreciate the issues that folks like Kucinich raise, I will never waste my vote on them.
I’m not sure they would have been able to take the ad off the air as you say. In any case, the way you originally presented the issue was to suggest that he was specifically targeting Florida with a Florida only ad. Read the article I presented.
And as far as Obama’s talk of new politics… look, he stays true to the issues. That’s what matters to voters and what matters to me. No serious competitor can wrangle their way out of every political compromise such as slightly softening your tone once you move into the general election.
McCain has always been a huge supporter of Iraq and helped to get us there. He only ever admitted failures when everyone else on the entire planet was speaking them at volumes. Obama has consistently been against the war and has consistently offered his own intelligent take on how to deal with the issue.
July 1, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Democracy did not die in this case brother. This was a complicated issue, but the issue of whether or not voter’s rights were crushed is pretty simple. They weren’t.
Michigan and Florida moved the votes up. The states were told that they would be stripped of their delegates. The states held the elections anyway. The states were not going to hold new elections properly afterwards because it would be too expensive. This part of the issue is a mess. It is an unfortunate mess. I don’t personally believe that those special four states always have to be the first ones every year. I think that’s a little archaic, but for Michigan and Florida to do what they did was too rash and did not help things.
Now, of course, people voted okay? But their votes shouldn’t count, because the circumstances surrounding their votes makes it obvious that the votes were not conducted with fairness for all the candidates involved.
Obama was not some evil man trying to steal votes. Stop trying to portray him as such. It does more of a disservice to truth and justice than what happened at the DNC. What happened at the DNC was an attempt to solve a complicated issue that had a lot of anger and emotional baggage riding on it.
Look, if ever there was a time when democracy was trampled it was in 2000 and everyone knows that. c’mon now
July 1, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Maybe because I was an actual voter in Florida in 2000 I look at voting rights differently then you because I went through it firsthand. I guess we will have to wait and see how the voters who currently live in florida and Michigan feel about the party that told them because their state officials moved up the dates (which the voters, the taxpayers didn’t have a say to that) that they didn’t count in full. I recall supporters of Senator Clinton saying they would raise part of the money but what do you think the outcome would have been in Florida or Michigan if a re-election were to be held? From speaking to many family in friends in Florida they are not getting over what the DNC did to them. A family friend who is in his 70’s and has voted for a democrat his entire life being a blue worker in Buffalo is going to stay home for the first time. Maybe the party officials are okay with it but the actual people who took time out of their day to vote aren’t.
July 1, 2008 at 8:27 pm
“STATE OFFICIALS MOVED UP THE DATES (WHICH THE VOTERS, THE TAXPAYERS DIDN’T HAVE A SAY TO THAT)”
100% true
So, it’s the STATE OFFICIALS who made this decision we should be upset with…. NOT OBAMA.
To direct your anger at Obama is to simply to do what McCain wants you to do.
Look, I feel sorry for voters in Florida and Michigan. I’m from Michigan. Ann Arbor. My vote was essentially fucked up too.
The point is, you just admitted that the bottom line falls with the state officials who moved the dates up. They are entirely responsible for all of the fall-out that has come about since. Obama did not play any nasty political cards in this matter whatsoever.
I stand by my assertion that it was Hillary who took to low road by manipulating the legitimate anger of Florida and Michigan voters by implicitly accusing Obama of trying to steal their votes.
The fact that she compared the voting problems in Michigan and Florida to African Americans who couldn’t vote in our country’s history Zimbabwe is just beyond me. Especially when Obama is African American.
Do you know what real voter disenfranchisement is? That is when Republicans, even today, go to predominantly black districts and to block and intimidate the voters. That is SICK SICK SICK SICK! To compare what happened in Florida and Michigan in any way to this kind of stuff does a huge disservice to ALL PEOPLE ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF TIME who have ever had their votes truly taken away!
July 1, 2008 at 8:31 pm
furthermore, Florida and Michigan are likely to see the highest voter turn-out in history in November, and more power to them. Heaven forbid that anything happens to cause more troubles
July 1, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Steve, oh wise one. I will gladly give you my reasons for choosing McCain over Nobama! No problem Sir. I will be on top of that as soon as I have a chance to write a novel. But to be fair please tell me what Obama’s specific accomplishments are other than a speech, how has he changed America? Why does he flip-flop on his issues, and why oh why is he going to raise taxes higher than any candidate in the history of the United States. Please humor me! I would love to know how to explain how he plans on raising the billions of dollars that he will need to successfully implement his promises. I also want to know the time frame in which you think he can deliver these promises.
BTW: Hillary said she would only raise taxes to the same point Bill did in the 90’s.
I am preparing my reasons for choosing McCain for you, but just need a break from this damn computer right now. Most of my job is virtual and my back and neck are killing me!
)
July 1, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Oh, one last question, do you prefer a side by side comparison on why I support McCain over Obama or do you want me to comment on one candidate at a time?
July 1, 2008 at 8:51 pm
I hear you on needing a break. And I look forward to seeing what you have to say, but I’m going to drop a few words on the issue of raising taxes.
If it requires taxes to help curb global warming SO BE IT! What else other than government intervention on the part of the United States is going to help stop global warming. Yes initiatives to stop global warming will pose challenges and are likely to require raising taxes. What’s more important? Keeping taxes down (cutting taxes for the rich as McCain wants to do) or stopping global warming which threatens our planet in ways that we haven’t even begun to imagine. Do you understand the concept of a UNIVERSAL GOOD? The effort to stop global warming falls into that category. A universal good outweighs the small negative of having higher taxes. How can you deny this? You are caught up in the ideology of low taxes always at all costs, disregarding the reality of what needs to be done to help OUR WORLD AND THE HEALTH OF ALL PEOPLE.
McCain does a lot of talk about stopping global warming, but I don’t believe him for a second. Look at the Republican’s record on that issue. They’re never going to make anything happen on that issue. McCain may have some sort of independent streak, but it requires A LOT MORE THAN THAT TO SOLVE THE ISSUE OF GLOBAL WARMING! IF HE ACTUALLY WANTED TO HELP THAT ISSUE HE WOULD LEAVE THE REPUBLICANS BEHIND FOR GOOD!!!
July 1, 2008 at 8:57 pm
also, I’d like to provide a real story, a human story on the issue of voter disenfranchisement just to further ‘obliterate’ the notion that Obama wanted to take votes away.
My mother has a longtime friend in Ann Arbor who is a female priest at a local church. She is married to a black man. A highly successful former professor at Eastern Michigan University. This woman identifies with the black struggle. She knows it well. During many elections she has volunteered at the voting centers.
In 2004, when she was volunteering at a predominantly black district in Michigan, she was faced with a large group of big burly men representing the Republican party who came to the school in which the voting booths were located.
Now, these men stopped each and every person coming to polls and aggressively intimidated them, asking them for their voting credentials and accusing them of not having any. This is real stuff. They created such a stir, with so many people upset and even scared of physical harm, that it actually did turn people away and made it far more difficult for people to cast their votes.
Look, this is the face of the Republican party. This is the honest true face of the Republican party. This is NOT THE PARTY OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN. THIS IS THE MODERN REPUBLICAN PARTY. A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL.
July 1, 2008 at 8:59 pm
The bottom line is it lays with the DNC. Why didn’t they just say from the beginning if you move up your primary date your delegates will be cut in half. The party leaders stood quietly by until they couldn’t stand by anymore as it was a close election. For Florida it was actually the Republican governor and legislation that moved the date up. The democrats after 2000 have been fighting for a paper trail and the republicans were going to approve the bill but only with the primary date moved up. So essentially the Florida democrats were screwed by their own party when the democratic party wouldn’t stand up (even though the Fl. legislatures did, as they tried to make ammendents to the bills and even had taken it to court). In essence the democratic party created a bigger problem by not resolving it at the beginning and not standing up to the republicans by allowing the voters to vote in the beginning. They could have said well the Republicans tied our hands into moving up our primary date and either A) said we are going to do what the Republicans are doing in their party cut the delegates awarded in half or B) allow Florida to move up with Nevada and S.C. The DNC allowed those states to move up without any punishment…do you think they could have allowed Florida to do that. It would have made the republicans look like the bad party that was hurting the voters rights again there but by the actions the DNC took it showed that both parties will throw voters rights out the window. I can see why people down there question voting now. If I still lived there I would too.
You use a key word Florida and Michigan are LIKELY to have a high turn out rate. It isn’t always the case though as you and I both know a general election isn’t as fun and exciting as a primary. You don’t have a candidate visitng your town days or hours before you cast your vote.
Steve out of curiosity did you support Obama or Hillary in the primary?
July 1, 2008 at 9:04 pm
by the way, while I don’t condone in any way the rhetoric of Reverend Wright… take a minute and consider the history of the black struggle. Yes Reverend Wright is living in the past and has blown things out of proportion and offers no solutions and only makes things worse… but JUST TAKE A MINUTE AND THINK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE BLACK STRUGGLE!!
why do people like Reverend Wright exist? WHY I ASK? Maybe he turned into such an extremist because over the course of his life he was overwhelmed by the EXTREME HORRIBLE DISGUSTING TREATMENT OF BLACKS THROUGHOUT HISTORY!
Why did he choose to become involved in black liberation theology? Maybe because he felt that the Christian religion could appeal to blacks and could aid them in their struggle to gain some confidence in this world….
LOOK, OBAMA DOESN’T AGREE AT ALL WITH WRIGHT ABOUT ALL HIS ‘GOOD DAMN AMERICA’ TALK=—–
BUT MAYBE OBAMA CAN IDENTIFY WITH A MAN WHO TAKES SERIOUSLY THE HISTORY OF OPPRESSION AGAINST BLACKS…. MAYBE THAT”S WHERE THE CONNECTION LIES… AND MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT!!
July 1, 2008 at 9:10 pm
they didn’t say that they would be cut in half. they said they wouldn’t count. they cut them in half as a concession to the misplaced anger of the people.
as I said, the issue of Florida and Michigan is complicated, but let it be. There’s no reason why this issue should compel you to vote for McCain over Obama… NO REASON…
but so many PUMA people refer to this issue in the same way that Hillary had, talking about it like a huge unjust voter block.
just read the above story… read it… that’s blocking voters.
July 1, 2008 at 9:19 pm
That isn’t the reason why I’m not voting for Obama. That is the reason I am re-looking my support of the Democratic party. I’m not voting for obama because he has poor judgement with who he associates with, he is inexperienced, he is too liberal in his views. He talks the talk but when looking at his record he doesn’t walk the walk.
Question for you Steve did you vote in your primary?
July 1, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Christina are you the owner of this page as It looks above as though someone else posted in my name the last post…Just4Hill.
I never entered that info and if so can you delete it?
I was under the impression we were building a civil dilect here
and was interested in reading through the interesting posts.
We can all see different sides and it helps us.
and am totally shocked to see that post under my name.
I would appreciate your help.
July 1, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I know about struggle in America. My great grandfather was 100% American Indian. His family had their land stolen from them and many were killed. My great grandpa told me he passed as an African American when he was growing up because he was treated better and still not as good as the whites. Our country has done a lot of wrong in many groups and african americans is one of them. Women have also been suppressed in our country and each group still continues to be suppressed in some way. We have come a long way from our past but we still have a long way to go in our future. There are other churches Obama could have attended to be with others that he can relate to without the words the United States created aids, god damn America, or 9/11 was our fault. Those comments aren’t about the color of a persons skin they are about the hatred for america. It does show a lack of judgement for him to wait 20 years and only after media attention to change churches. If the media didn’t pick up the story do you think he would have come to the same judgement that the church didn’t align with his believes.
July 1, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Why doesn’t Obama ever mention his white side other than to insult them? “Typical White Person?” He seems to dismiss that he is half white and only identifies himself as black.
Over 6 million people that share my background were killed in the 40’s due to fascism and genocide. They were degraded, separated from their families, numbered with tattoos, and murdered in the cruelest, most violent and disgusting manner in which I have ever seen or heard. Luckily I have met many of the lucky ones; however, they will never forget. They had to live with those visions for the rest of their lives. I have felt extreme hatred here in the U.S. I was made a spectacle of throughout my grade school and a couple high school years. I have had to sit and listen to many rude jokes and pretend that they are funny just to belong, and now I am starting to feel this pressure from the Obama cultists. It’s like the re-birth of the new “believers” in a brilliant speaker with no merit behind the speech. Steve, I will never BELIEVE!
As for Global Warming, that is only one area that Obama plans on spending billions of dollars. It is not one specific issue, it’s everything tied together that is going to make our taxes skyrocket. If you can’t see that, then you are blind, read his figures.
I have a mind of my own and I plan to use it. McCain is closer to a Democrat than the most liberal ever Nobama!
I really don’t know what you want out of these messages? They are not going to change anyone’s mind. We are very proud members of PUMA, PUMA PAC, and JUST SAY NO DEAL. We will vote however we choose. We can think for ourselves and chose to use that right in the general election since it was taken away by the DNC in the primaries.
Are you all scared of Obama losing or something? I just don’t get all of this?
July 1, 2008 at 9:45 pm
just4hill- I will look into it, don’t worry.
July 1, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Yes, those examples of Wright’s rhetoric are indeed based in misinformation and misplaced anger and hate. I agree. But I feel that there is room for complicated relationships in this world. For example, I’m sure that if I met many of you in person without talking about politics, we could certainly be friends and look past our differences. Perhaps Obama had a complicated relationship with Wright in which he didn’t agree with those kind of things, even thought they were stupid, but still had some sort of paternal relationship with him. I’m sure that many of us have fathers or grandfathers who have funny beliefs and talk a bunch of crazy stuff sometimes. I have an Uncle who is totally racist, however he treated me well as a child, therefore the relationship with him is complicated. I don’t share his views, but I wouldn’t deny him as my Uncle. Obama didn’t have a real father. Perhaps as a young man he forged a relationship with Wright based on something that didn’t have to do with Wright’s extreme views, but based on some other human connection that was hard to break. I don’t know what the majority of Wright’s speeches were like over the course of those 20 years. I do know that the Audacity of Hope speech that he gave had to do with people learning to cling on to hope in the most dire of circumstances… this moved Obama as a young man.
Now, McCain specifically sought the endorsement of Reverend Hagee. This man also blamed us for 9/11 and Katrina. He essentially blamed homosexuals for both disasters. This man wasn’t McCain’s pastor. McCain sought his endorsement for political reasons and then had to disavow him when ugly statements came out. McCain had no complicated relationship with Hagee… he just wanted to win over the 1000s upon 1000s of right wing Christians who agree with Hagee that gays caused Katrina.
By the way, I wanted to vote for Obama but I couldn’t.
July 1, 2008 at 9:54 pm
This is the last post I’ll make for a while, but just to answer your question 1/18 mill…
yes, we are indeed scared of Obama losing. Why shouldn’t we be? Why would we want McCain?
Many of us are dumbfounded for all the reasons posted above at the idea that Democrats would vote for McCain over Obama.
I’m not sure where we are going exactly with the comments back and forth, but I do know that I am learning a lot about how people think and these kind of discussions are important to have.
But to put it quite simply, PUMA is a bad thing for America. Independent Voter, whoever he/she is, seems to be intelligent. And that makes me wonder why he/she would want to associate with PUMA, because most of the rhetoric coming from them is just awful.
The vast majority of PUMA is caught up in misplaced anger over Hillary, and fails to recognize that on all the issues they care about Obama is the obvious choice for them over McCain.
No one is pressuring you to blindly believe anything…
WE ARE NOT ADVOCATING BLIND SUPPORT OF OBAMA. WE ARE GIVING SPECIFIC REASONS, THAT”S PART OF WHY WE ARE HERE.
July 1, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Steve,
You seem to like to hear your own voice, keep talking! I want to know more about your trust in Obama. I surely do not trust him with anything, especially America.
Why didn’t he take the public funding? Why would he rather waste $284 million on a campaign if he cares about the struggles America is going through rather than the $84 million that he agreed and signed on?
July 1, 2008 at 11:03 pm
For Mr. Randal
In years gone by, control by the other party, the DNC could see a splintered and weather beaten woman come up to the front, and she said with glee,” I am running for Presidency, for I feel that I can do the best for the country indeed! The DNC old fashon “stay in the kitchen”thinkers looked at each other and said “What must we do with this?” If we let her win, we surely have Bill in the mist and we might lose the electiion and miss.” As zealous and eager to partake their plan, they looked for a voice within . They rush and grab a young color man instead to govern our land.” While the weather beaten woman continue to talk, her darling smile melted the grassroot crowd, they followed her to listen to her mind. But, as she talk about love and faith, the colored man used the old card of race and remove her black kind. He copied and used the words that wanted to be heard all over the nation, he did. But, what the DNC forget to do was to check out his sins!
Dear Christiana and your other half Mr. Randal. If you think that for one minute, our pen soldiers and warriors are going to stop, take another look at the electro, you have awaken the faithful of G-D. Enjoy the poem.
July 2, 2008 at 12:00 am
Why choose McCain over Obama?
Obama:
Arrogant, questionable patriotism (did not put right hand over heart during national anthem or wear flag pin until being confronted about it and advised to change those things from his campaign,) 57 states and 1 to go? Hanover Nuclear site cleanup in WA/OR, never heard of. Fake uncle. Reverend Wright, and his association with Unity Trinity for 20 years. (Rev. Wright criticized the “White People” of inventing HIV to commit genocide against people of color, (newsflash, two of the people Rev. Wright made fun of most were the Clintons. If you look up The Clinton Foundation, their main focus is HIV/AIDS.) That was only one of many rude, disgusting things said at Trinity. Even Father Pledger or whatever the white preacher’s name is made sexist remarks against Hillary. His connections with Rezko, Farrakhan, and Ayers among others. Michelle Obama’s comments about first time being proud of her country, and how can Hillary run the country if she can’t run her household. The dirty politics he used to become an Illinois Senator. He used cocaine. That’s enough about the lack of trust in his character.
Now on issues:
He is pro abortion; however, if a child is aborted and lives, he does not believe in giving that child a chance at life.
He will meet with Raul Castro without preconditions.
He is anti- gay marriage, pro civil union.
Global warming plan will cost $150 billion over 10 years.
Healthcare will be mandatory for children, not adults. This will cost $65 billion.
Education: raise teacher’s salaries, give up to $4,000 tax credit for college. This will cost $18 billion.
Housing: Tax credit covers 10% of annual mortgage interest payment for struggling homeowners. He will give $20 billion to responsible homeowners.
Iran: He will meet with Ahmadinejad without preconditions, but has since flip-flopped.
Iraq: Against the war to start, opposes troop increase. Now he says that his plan would complete troop withdrawal in 2009, 4 months sooner than originally planned. Has flip-flopped on that too.
Now says it would be irresponsible to set a time frame for withdrawal without knowing the state of the war at the time he would become President.
Israel: Will commit to Israel security, $30 billion aid plan. Supports 2 state solution for Israel/Palest. peace. Jerusalum should be capital of Israel. Changed his position to show he is pro-Israel.
Soc. Sec.: He will raise cap, would subject higher incomes to social security taxes.
Taxes: Raise Income tax on wealthy $80 billion tax breaks for poor and elderly. Eliminate tax filing for older people working and making $50,000 or less.
Reopen NAFTA
Other notes:
During the primary campaign, Obama had constantly reiterated his opposition to President Bush’s plans to give retroactive immunity from prosecution to telecommunications companies who assist the government with warrantless wiretaps. This measure was passionately opposed by many Democrats as a clear infringement of the fourth amendment to the Constitution. Last week, Obama reversed his long-held position.
Signed and committed to using public funding for his campaign. Flip-Flopped! Instead of wasting $84 million, he chose to waste $284 million. This shows a lack of care for struggling Americans.
Obama, who up until now had openly backed the strict handgun ban in Washington DC, last week declared his support for a 5 to 4 Supreme Court ruling which overturned the restrictions. Even though his own hometown mayor, Chicago’s Richard Daley, and the Los Angeles police chief William Bratton, both criticised the ruling, Obama flip-flopped once more, saying that the judgment “reinforces that if we act responsibly we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.”
Barack Obama also took on another issue with a different judgment by the Supreme Court, which had struck down the State of Louisiana’s law authorising the death penalty for the rape of a child. Obama, who as Illinois senator had opposed the death penalty for gang murders, now explained that he believes Louisiana’s death penalty for a crime short of murder “is at least potentially applicable and does not violate our constitution.”
Whew that was long…. I will have my reasons for choosing McCain soon.
So, NObama because of the lack of character, judgement, flip-flopping, potential danger to America with foreign policy, HUGE tax increases, willing to sell out to get Repub. votes. No experience, same ol’ dirty politics as usual but possibly worse. Say NOPE to the DOPE!
July 2, 2008 at 12:31 am
When he decides to face Larry Sinclair accusation and tell the public it is lie, and also his birth certificate in public- Maybe I will consider in looking up the rest of the rumors. As, for right now, I find him to be uncreditable.
July 2, 2008 at 12:35 am
Soldier- Larry Sinclair is a criminal and Senator Obama should not legitimize that whackos existence. Don’t you think if Larry Sinclair had soe ground on this man’s “death” that this man’s family would have some public outrage and be pleeding for an investigation? The dead man’s family is nowhere to be found. give it up. Larry took a polygraph- HE FAILED.
July 2, 2008 at 12:37 am
Oh, I forgot those unsolved accusations as well. More questionable relationships/character flaws.
July 2, 2008 at 12:42 am
What don’t you understand about failing a lie detector test?
July 2, 2008 at 2:18 am
Failing what test- the one manufactured by Whitehouse? Please, let the rumor be posted on the fighthesmear like every other one, and let see if He dares. The only reason he doesn’t is because as soon as he does, maybe there are other whistleblowers waiting for this opporunity to get a 5 minute fame shot. Let us put it to rest, tell your nominee to put this rumor on this site, if he doesn’t we have a pretty good idea where he was in 1999.
July 2, 2008 at 2:26 am
How do you know whitehouse was false? Because Larry said so? He failed the test and received the 10K
Get over it.
This isn’t some mainstream smear tat Senator Obama should legitimize. This is the CRAZY loon that comes out in every election- this time- this one just used the internet.
You believe that- you believe Clinton killed vince Foster.
July 2, 2008 at 4:00 am
Is the time on here set to the incorrect time or is it set in your time Christina?
It should be set at midnight eastern time.
at this moment
Does that suggest your not located in the States?
July 2, 2008 at 4:42 am
no the time on this blog is always funky. I live in FL.
July 2, 2008 at 4:43 am
hey folks, just wanted to stop back in to say OBAMA 08!
July 2, 2008 at 6:20 am
McCain 08! Be afraid, be very afraid of the PUMA!!! LOL!
July 2, 2008 at 6:47 am
alrighty 1/18
I’ve read your reasons against Obama. I’m preparing my response. I’m looking forward to your reasons for McCain. I just can’t WAIT to see what you come up with.
This is soooo fun.
OBAMA 08.
July 2, 2008 at 8:06 am
Okay, so about John McCain:
We all know that he is a POW, a true American hero.
Not only has he survived being a POW, he has survived Cancer.
1958- Commander U.S. Navy
1967-73- POW Vietnam
1977- Captain Navy Pilot
1977-1981- Navy Senate Liason Office
1982-1986- U.S. Rep. AZ
1986- Present- U.S. Senator AZ
1982- McCain spoke and voted against Reagan authorizing him to keep Marines in Lebanon for 18 more months. Then terrorists attacked and bombed the Marines’ barracks & then Reagan ended the mission.
McCain is tight with taxpayer’s money. He does not spend them wastefully!
McCain decided to take on the system of campaign financing (money McCain considered to be used in a wasteful manner,) an issue that joined him with like minded Democrats and split him from Republicans.
Both McCain and Obama signed agreements to use the public financing for their campaigns. McCain was true to his word, Obama did not come through on his signed and spoken promise.
In 2004, Kerry, Edwards and Lieberman said that McCain was their favorite Republican. They consider him a conservative Republican, and he has the ability to attract Democrats.
McCain seeks success in the Iraqi war; however, he was an early critic of Bush’s conduct of the war.
Abortion: Opposes Abortion; however, would not seek constitutional amendment to ban abortion.
Campaign Financing: Co-Author of McCain-Feingold Campaign finance law, he will use the public money and agree to the spending limits.
Cuba: He seeks to ease restrictions with Cuba once the U.S. is confident that free and open democracy has been achieved in Cuba.
Death Penalty: Agrees (me too!)
Education: Believes in parental choice of school- would give vouchers for private schools when approved by local officials.
He believes that parents have the right to Home School their children.
He would like to make more money available for community college.
Gay Marriage: Opposes constitutional ban on gay marriage. Couples of the same sex should be able to have the same opportunites as straight couples, they have the right to insurance and other benefits.
Global Warming: – Cap greenhouse gas emissions
-tougher fuel efficiency
-plan to see greenhouse gas emissions cut by 60% before 2050.
-supports more nuclear power
Guns: Against the ban on the right to bear arms, but in favor of background checks at gun shows.
Healthcare: 2500 refundable tax credit to individuals and 5000 for families to make healthcare more affordable. Those who are covered by their companies insurance plans will not receive these tax credits. There is no mandate for Universal health care.
Housing: Open to help home owners facing foreclosureif they are legitimate borrowers not speculators.
Iran: Tougher sanctions, oppose direct talk w/Mahmoud Ahmadinejad without preconditions.
Iraq: Oppose scheduled troop withdrawal, latest strategy is succeeding. He supported the war but was an early critic of the manner in which the administration prosecuted it.
His long term plan for Iraq is similiar to the military presence in South Korea & Japan to keep the peace.
Israel and Palestine:
-Pro Israel
-Work to maintain Israel’s qualitative military edge over Arab states and Iran.
-Supports $30 billion in U.S. military aid over a decade.
-Supports Jerusalemas the capital of Israel.
-Supports negotiations between Israel and Palestine to establish Independent Palestinian State alongside Israel.
Social Security: Would consider almost anything as a part of compromise to save social security. Does not support higher payroll taxes for now.
Stem Cell:
Supports relaxing restrictions on federal financing of embryonic stem cell research.
Taxes: NO NEW TAXES! (Good!)
Twice supported Bush’s tax cuts at first because they tilted toward the wealthiest and unknown cost of Iraq war.
-Those tax cuts expire in 2010.
-Propose cutting corporate tax rate to 25%.
-Promise to balance the budget in 1st term, unlikely expectation to balance budget in 1st year. (Honest time frame)
Trade: Free Trade Advocate
McCain has donated all of his royalities from every book he wrote to charity (over 1.4 million dollars) and he also didn’t think congress needed pay raises and has donated every pay raise he has recv’d to charity (over 400K) so far. His wife does charity work and donates money as well.
Obama gives most of his charity money to trinity church. Trinity rec’d 15 million from gov’t funds over the last 15 years, rev. wright is building a mansion in a gated community so I think maybe some other charities could have used the funds from the obamas.
In my comparisons between Obama and John McCain I have discovered one MAJOR thing. John McCain’s views and issues are not even close to George Bush. In no way is he Bush the 3rd. If I was going to compare Bush to anyone it would be Obama. Obama is already planning on continuing Bush’s policy on religion. Bush and Obama do not contribute to charity. Bush and Obama are egocentric, and money driven.
I have another huge peeve with Obama and healthcare. He is a smoker who claims to support ads against the tobacco companies soliciting kids. He also supports cancer research and issues regarding lung cancer. This is personally disgusting to me. Practice what you preach! McCain is a cancer survivor so I am sure that he knows the horrors of that disease. I can see an add supporting a bill for the govt. to give more money to cancer research. I can see obama sitting there with a cigarette in his mouth! Not a good example for kids.
I am falling asleep, what else do you want to know?
July 8, 2008 at 2:20 am
If angry Hillary supporters are no threat to Obama. Then why are they trying to shut us up?
July 8, 2008 at 2:25 am
Please show me how “we” are trying to shut you up.